Draft--Nineties--easy--my opionions

[slayer]

Since I obviously value the people in this online community, and of course the quality and dedication of AGD to making some great products I want to share some of my thoughts on the events of this past Tuesday.

I have been reading a lot of posts about this and have come to some conclusions / want to share some thoughts with those who read this.


Tom brough up a very interesting point when he mentioned that kids have not had it that bad in the nineties. For the most part I agree, but I am not that familiar with the finer points of American history but during the seventies was there the same level of school shootings? Was there a columbine, or gang wars with semi -automatic and automatic weapons. I have been shielded from it all due to where I grew up but I know that not everyone has. I believe that some kids want to avoid the draft because they have seen one of their friends get blown away when they were walking home from a basketball game. They have seen first hand what a well placed bullet will do, or sadly enough what a misplaced bullet will do(as in the case of random drive by victims).

Furthermore since our economy has been doing so well until recently I believe that many americans of ALL different ages have been happy to sit fat and complacent and watch 3rd. world nations go kill each other in civil wars on the evening news. I think apathy that is brought about by the political, financial, and relative social stability of the nineties has put us in a bubble. Tuesday was one hell of a way to bust the bubble.

Were am I going with this:
1. the nineties were a different sort of tough for some, but mostly fluff and cake which has caused many of us to become apathetic.

2. Don't dodge the draft unless you believe the reason that we are fighting for is unjust. Just because you don't want to get killed is not a valid reason. Embarking on the policy of exterminating all Afghanistan people is.

3. If you think killing people is good, then I think that is sick. It may have to be done but it isn't a nice business.

4. all of you pissed off about these kids who don't want to go to war, I hope that you are ready and willing

5. If you are religious pray that this ends for the best.

6. It is at times rather difficult to communicate your actual intent in words. I have written this with that understanding but still some may feel that is an attack on them.
ALL OF THIS IS MY OPINION, I am NOT FLAMING ANYONE, if you take it that way then don't. I am quite aware that people are sensitive about these issues, but I just wanted to get on the public soap box and have my say. I also realize that people may disagree with me and I hope that they post their ideas/solutions whatever also so that we can discuss in a calm and civilized manner. So everyone please feel free to post, and I will not be offended because I have opened this up to everyones scrutiny and I am sure that everyone will do their best to phrase their replies in a way that they would want to receive them.

thank you for reading my rant,
Respectfully,

Francesco A. Queirolo

SLAYER

[Restola]

there are lots of patriotic teenagers. not everyone is going to rally and yell and be on the news. we will there when america needs us.

[Rooster]

Ok, first of all, i don't know where everyone got the idea that the goal of a war on terrorism is to kill all Afgahns. First of all, to have any chance at winning this war, we need the global communities help. They won't take to kindly to genocide. Killing all Afgahns is a huge non-issue, created from too many people watching too many Veitnam movies where Cpt./Sgt./Lt. Insano wastes a village claiming they are VCs. This sort of sensationalism creates a good counterpoint for a movie, but the reality is much different.

In vietnam, VCs did not wear uniforms for the most part, they were men and women and even children. They hid in tunnels during the day, or they hid in plain sight as civilians. And ambushed troops at night. Its very hard to fight this type of war without killing civilians. Anyone who does intensionally, should be punnished, sevearly. The government has never condoned this type of action, but acciedents happen, and some individuals ignore orders and commit crimes against the civilians they are supposed to be protecting. This isn't the government's fualt, only if they refuse to bring said criminals to justice. Yeah, most of us have seen the burned children due to napalm. Thats unfortunate, but its the reality of war. innocents sometimes die. The differance between accidently killing civilians, and targeting them, is the difference between warfare and terrorism.

Second, if you arn't willing to die, or kill, for your country, you shouldn't be a citizen. You do not deserve the same rights as a citizen. I personally don't even think you should be allowed to live in the land of opportunity, you should have to try to make it elsewhere.

[slayer]

Rooster, I have to agree with you about the genocide thing. I just used it to illustrate my point about a good and a bad reason to morally object the draft. As you can see with your own response and I am sure that everyone will agree that genocide is not only a bad thing, but intolerable. Although it did happen not only in WW II but also rather recently in Bosnia.

[Eagle]

He says that killing people is wrong, can't argue with that, save for a few terrorists (anyone who want's to argue THAT can wear my flak jacket and ballistic helmet outside the boat 8hrs straight 7 days a week, then work another few hours getting the ship ready for sea), and yet his name is Slayer, explain that one to me.

[slayer]

Originally posted by Eagle
and yet his name is Slayer, explain that one to me.

Slayer--metaphorically speaking I put everyone in the out area (commonly referred to as: dead box) in a paintball game

If you called me Marker or Tagger it wouldn't have the same effect. Besides everyone loves the speed metal

[wyn1370]

I'm going to have to disagree with the statement that if you aren't willing to kill for your country that you shouldn't be allowed to live here.
My problem with this war is that this is exactly what will happen. We will invade Afghanistan. We will kill soldiers that are simply defending their home, not Bin Laden. Patriots will end up killing patriots. Unfortunately we will have to go through these people to get to Bin Laden and his followers. Since the Afghanistan government will not hand him over, some innocents will end up fighting a war they do not believe in. Given that some will be supporters but others will not. Who's to say which is which. Hence my problem with killing.

[thei3ug]

I'm not eligible for the draft. Hehe. Sucks.

[shartley]

I will not comment on personal views stated in this thread.. after all they are VIEWS, not facts. But one thing I would like to point out is this section right here:

For the most part I agree, but I am not that familiar with the finer points of American history but during the seventies was there the same level of school shootings? Was there a columbine, or gang wars with semi -automatic and automatic weapons. I have been shielded from it all due to where I grew up but I know that not everyone has. I believe that some kids want to avoid the draft because they have seen one of their friends get blown away when they were walking home from a basketball game. They have seen first hand what a well placed bullet will do, or sadly enough what a misplaced bullet will do(as in the case of random drive by victims).

[Hasty8]

Let's clear a few misconceptions

Originally posted by wyn1370
I'm going to have to disagree with the statement that if you aren't willing to kill for your country that you shouldn't be allowed to live here.
My problem with this war is that this is exactly what will happen. We will invade Afghanistan. We will kill soldiers that are simply defending their home, not Bin Laden. Patriots will end up killing patriots. Unfortunately we will have to go through these people to get to Bin Laden and his followers. Since the Afghanistan government will not hand him over, some innocents will end up fighting a war they do not believe in. Given that some will be supporters but others will not. Who's to say which is which. Hence my problem with killing.

First off, while it is not referred to here it elsewhere in this post so let me clear this up.

THERE IS NO DRAFT!!!

Not now. Not gonna happen. I'm willing to guarantee it. The reason for this is that the need for a huge standing army is decades old. Wars will not be fought like they were in Korea and Vietnam. You will see technology doing more and more. But that is a discussion for another time.

Second, as to the comment made in he quote above the we will invade Afganistan and will be killing their patriots. We are first allowing diplomacy to take place. We are letting them, the Afganis, know that we want Osama Bin Laden (OBL). Anyone who supports a terrorist in any way, becomes one. Whether that support is by financing him, hiding him or other.

And, you will see that slowly but surely his funding will be cut off and the number of hiding places he has is cut off. OBL really fluffed up this time in that he accomplished his design a little to well.

As for innocents fightin a war they do not believe in, that statement, I think, comes from your misconception that some will be drafted into the US armed forces but again, that will not happen.

And as for your first statement I have to disagree with you there as well. While you may not want to kill, it is the responsibility of every single man, woman and child in this great country to do everything they can to ensure the freedom and liberty sustains above all. If you are gong to shirk your responsibility then I say get the heck out and make room for someone who will take responsibility for their freedom and liberty.

As for the fighting a war you do not believe in, it is your duty, your right and your responsibility to make your voice heard if you oppose such a war. If your one voice is not enough then you have to find others who are like minded. If you do not find enough to make a difference then you have to except that as what it is. The majority rules in this country. Sometimes you winand sometimes you lose.

A great patriot once said "I may not believe in what you are saying but I will lay down my life defending your right to say it." That is the very basis of our country.

The freedom of everyone to have a say.

[wyn1370]

Hasty8,
I think you missed my point. I was trying to say that the troops that will be fighting for Afghanistan will not be fighting for OBL, but will be fighting to protect their homes. Unfortunately they may not be able to leave Afghanistan and will be forced to fight by their government. Now if this was simply a war between us and anyone whomoever caused the incidents of last Tues, then I'd have no problem.

[cphilip]

Sorry guys...this is actualy OT for the Main and the request to discuss this kind of thing there has now been lifted. I know! I know!!! We have been allowing a lot of this here lately so not your fault. I even went and moved the Official Terrorist thread on over there too.

Allowing it in Main was the right thing to do at the time and some might argue that maybe it's a bit early to get back to normal. I dunno. But please believe me when I say I mean no disrespect by starting to get back to sort of normal. I am going to try and clean up a bit now. So please do not let me interupt this valuable conversation at all.


Sorry for the inconvienience and please do continue...in Friendly Corner. See ya'll there.

cphilip

[slayer]

cphilip its all good. Whats good for one thread is good for another of the same topic, and as always nice job regulating.

[cphilip]

Thanks Slayer.