Israel

[Army]

Just a quick "post-it" note from the management:

Thank you for keeping this thread civil. It started out innocent enough, but quickly devolved into a religeous debate. As we all know, religeous discussion is not allowed on the site.

However, you guys are keeping it quite intellectual and intriguing. As long as the attitude maintains an adult level of conversation, I'm going to let this one continue. Dave



Game on!

[Bartleby]

Please don't go there...While i'm sorry if i made it seem like it was simple to defy the army that occupies one's country in such ways that were done during World War II, it most certainly was done regardless of the level of difficultly, which simply shows devotion. So, while I'm sorry that i could not provide the proper information at the time as you were helpful enough to point out, i do recall now that one of those nations was Denmark. And if you want to call Denmark "La-La Land" then by all means be my guest, but this is history and not a Milton Bradley board game.

The situation in Germany (and other places such as Poland) did NOT just happen overnight.

Question for you, have you ever heard the term Kristallnacht? and if so do you know what it means? I will agree that the entire even of the Holocaust did not happen overnight, but the beginning of it was a feirce surprise. Kristallnacht, litterally translated means "Night of Broken Glass". So, in essence it could be argued that the Holocaust indeed did happen overnight, at least in Poland, but that is not what we are here to discuss, even though the largest number of Holocaust victoms were taken in Poland, many of which on Kristallnacht.

[shartley]

Dude

Actually, Shartley every Jew can be traced back to the original twelve tribes of Judah, which were the original Israelites. Also, the only requirement to become and Israeli, is to be Jewish. If a Jew goes to Israel, and can prove that they're Jewish, then the Israeli gov't asks no more questions and makes the person a citizen.

The overall idea in "returning" to Israel is that all Jews have a home in Israel. It was our promised land and homeland, dating all the way back to G-D's convenant w/ Abraham.

"Also, many people join Green Peace and run off to save the whales because of strong convictions. Does that mean that since they have such strong connections about whales that they are also whales, or that they came from the Ocean? Not likely." (Shartley)

You claim to not be insulting when you say things like this, but I find this rediculous analogy to be very blatently insulting.

The Vatican city is totally different from Israel. The VC was never the Catholics' promised land or their home land.

Question for you, have you ever heard the term Kristallnacht? and if so do you know what it means? I will agree that the entire even of the Holocaust did not happen overnight, but the beginning of it was a feirce surprise. Kristallnacht, litterally translated means "Night of Broken Glass". So, in essence it could be argued that the Holocaust indeed did happen overnight, at least in Poland, but that is not what we are here to discuss, even though the largest number of Holocaust victoms were taken in Poland, many of which on Kristallnacht.

[steveg]

Some random thoughts in no particular order

"alliance" can mean a lot of things, not limited to military. economic,cultural,education,and religion all come
to mind. except for things that need to be blown up,blowing things up is generally not a solution

History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. (Abba Eban)

The Japanese Internment was not a voluntary program either(although it's intent was not the same)

The U.S. is hardly the only country that supports and encourages democracy, nor is U.S. support limited to only
Democratic countries, Kuwait Iraq and Iran are recent examples of non-democratic countries that have in the past
or are now supported by the U.S.

carry on.

[obsolete898]

Shartley,

I don't think he wants to argue weather or not God gave the jews Isreal. I think he was (and I know I was) stated that to show the strong tie to that area. Basically if anyone believed that God gave them something they would have a strong tie to it.

Yea I would also say "most", but I think Sammy Davis jr. is out of luck.

[FaSSt]

Originally posted by obsolete898
Yea I would also say "most", but I think Sammy Davis jr. is out of luck.

LOL

[bofh]

Originally posted by obsolete898
Yea I would also say "most", but I think Sammy Davis jr. is out of luck.

Gotta agree here, very few dead people can claim citizenship and vote... unless it's Chicago.

[Dude]

Originally posted by shartley [/B]

Shartley, it does not matter whether you think you insulted people or not. If the people feel insulted, then you insulted them. However, you have apologized, and I for one accept that appology. Remember you have gotten in trouble for being insulting before...

Also, sarcasm and insults take away your credibility and make you less persuasive.

[shartley]

I am not upset.... and I respect your opinions..

Question though:

Remember you have gotten in trouble for being insulting before...

[ThePatriot]

Originally posted by obsolete898


That's some what true, but Jews have a stronger tie to the land of Isreal because the Torah(sp) states that God gave that land to them. That's a little stonger than the tie to the vatican.

Also alot of Jews trace thier lineage as far back as to know wich tribe they were from.

Another good piece of info is that to alot of jews not only is being jewish thier religion, but also thier nationality.

I havent been reading ALL of this, i do not know if it was said or not. Anyway, Jews also admire Israel so much because, if you think back in history, NEVER have they had a land of their own. They have always just kinda existed with Christians and Muslims, and have been the victims of stupid prejudice time and time again. They are just proud they finally have a homeland, some place they can call their own, and they do not want too lose it. I am not pure jewish, i am kind of semi jewish, i do not celebrate the jewish holidays, however my grandparents are jewish and my dad was. They are not practicing jews, but their beliefs and whatnot have rubbed off on me.

[X-Plosive]

Okay here we go with my random trivial irrelevant facts again.


Jews were actually brought directly into Poland in 1492 by Kazimierz IV Jagiellonczyk....atleats I think that's his name. The Tora restricts jewish people from loaning money to each other and collecting interest. Jewish people were then welcomed into poland to play the role of the debt collector. I mean, who likes the guy who loans money and comes knocking at your door the next day collecting interest+the loan ammount? As far as I know this is "supposedly" where those silly stereotypes began with Jewish people being money hungary and greedy. Poland's Christians eventually grew tired of all the jewish people and that's where the slanderous talk starts. So you see, it's almost like the jews were setup in poland. During WWII all the christians in Poland gave the nazi's full cooperation and actually pointed all the jews in hiding. As to why Hitler invaded Poland first....Which he DID. I myself think it was because he wanted the land and it was all part of his startegy. Also, if Hitler had made friends with the jewish folks he could of possibly achieved his goal. Nearly all of the people in the manhattan project were German Jews...He picked the wrong people to use as a scapegoat. Actually this last part is just a couple of my thoughts arranged sloppil together. There seems to be a lot of fiction going around about Hitler such as he had a grandfather who was a jew. It has been proven that A Jewish doctor was late to arrive in order to help his father who was suffering from a stroke. Hitler watched his own father die in front of him. Hitler also joined an anti-semitic group in austria. Last I checked hitlers main goal was to restore the greatness of Germany....by whatever poisoned it...he apparently thought it was jewish people.

I also recall hitler wanting to attend an art school. The art board which rejected him was made up of mainly jews. Has anyone read his book?

Wow I'm full of useful information and I'm sorry if any of it is incorrect. If any of it is incorrect please correct it so we can all learn. Shartley please don't eat me

-Sean

[shartley]

LOL For all intensive purposes I am out of the discussion. No worries from this end.

[Dude]

"The Tora restricts jewish people from loaning money to each other and collecting interest" (X-Plosive)

This is not correct. The laws of the Torah do not prohibit Jews from doing these things. On the other hand the Bible does prohibit usury charges, which are interest charges on loans. On account of this, Jews became bankers and heavily envolved in trade, which is where some stereotypes of Jes being rich came from. They basically did the jobs in Europe that the Christians and Muslims could not or would not do, and got wealthy from it.

[X-Plosive]

I'm catholic and not a good one at that. What do I know? Thanks for correcting me

[Mav D MagMan]

Originally posted by shartley

Here Shartley, even if you ain't tit'n or tat'n in this whole thread anymore I did the looking for you... Well actually I just came across it by accident. But hey at least you're not wracking your caffeine drivin mind to find this right?

Final Solution (Holocaust)