Customized Sports Cars

[Zumina]

Considering the old muscle cars came with 14" X 5" tires from factory, and the VAST improvements in tire technology, and ugodly amounts of torque, tire spin is understandable.

[headcase]

You are right, and that is probably were the differences in 0-60 for the Boss come from, better tires.

I was just making a point that from then to now, the performance wasn't that diffent, the Honda just does it in a smaller more efficient package.

The real point of this, for me at least, what to say that the S2000 engine is impressive. Anyone can get big power from a big engine, but it is more impressive to me to get it from a small engine.

Most american cars are unbelevablly unefficient. Wow the new viper puts out 500 hp! Yeah, but it gets all that power from an 8 liter v12, that is around 62 HP to the liter, about half as efficent at the S2000. The z06 Vette is a little better at around 71 hp per liter.

My point, as I've said before, was not to start a domestic vs import war, but just to point out that the S2000's 2.0 liter engine put out 240 hp, and is an impressive piece of engineering.

I should have guessed that if I said something possitive about an import, everyone would jump out of the wood work to say how great their old muscule cars are.

Now I remember why I don't post here as much as I use to.

[rhetor22]

no no no this isn't a domestic vs import battle.

i think its a displacement battle.

THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!

if you put some nice tires on that 427 boss... whooo dilly.



blowers beat turbos. (.)


Guys, most of you have automags so maybe you can relate. Quality. The mag is stainless steel. the boss just has so much metal and pure strength to it. grrrrrr its a mean car.

when i said price i was thinking of that acura RSX, sorry bout that.

[CRiZO]

Heh, I'm not going to say your name, but you really need to get over yourself and let people have fun arguing about things without you coming in and trying to put yourself into a position of power you don't have. No one is making personal attacks, it's just something to talk about.

Personally, I have to go with powerboats... mmmm... my grandpa has a fountain with two 512hp supercharged engines on that thing... it goes fast. Lol, i just realized that's 1024 hp... wow. Now lets turn this into a discussion on how boat engines would do implanted into something on the street.

[headcase]

Originally posted by rhetor22
no no no this isn't a domestic vs import battle.

i think its a displacement battle.

THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!

if you put some nice tires on that 427 boss... whooo dilly.

There is a replacement for displacement, it's called good engineering, and intelligent design. If the s2000 was a liter larger, it could be making around 360 just a touch off of the 375 reported for the boss. and if my math is right a 429 is what around 7 liters? So 15 less hps from an engine that is half as large. Displacement is just the easiest way to get power, and for some reason a large majority of this country assumes bigger is better.

[CRiZO]

look at the USA's mustang (the warplane) compared to Japans Zero fighter... it's been going on for quite some time.

[rhetor22]

crizo, the mustang was the plane that could finaly out perfrom the zero. in many ways it won the air against the japaneze and teletubbies.

your forgetting something guys!

its not all about power (although that is oh so important)

a big engine is sweet. it sounds good, it gets horrible gas mileage (again i like big trucks), looks sweet, and gives you that vroom vroom feeling.

an s2000 engine will never give you the tingly feeling of a big *** v8.

[CRiZO]

That was my point, the mustangs were huge compared to the zero's.. and it did crazy good.

Teletubbies scare CRiZO.

[Gotenks]

hehe

zero's were powered by mitsubishi....
what were mustangs powered by?

And to the guy who said "mags vs. cockers domestics vs. imports"

that was a horrible analogy

The way I see it is, the domestic people who hate imports and call them "rice rockets" are just as bad as the import boys who say "v8's, and dumbestics suck"

Both types of people are the same.

oh and rhetor...

Turbos > blowers

[rhetor22]

nah a blower in muscle car talk is strictly a supercharger.

turbos are great as long as they dont come stock (cuz then what do you do hehe) but imho a supercharger is better. more torque and hp throughout the rev range. except for 0 rpm of course. turbos are great for high revving quarter miles and stuff, but if you're into big blocks, blower all the way!!

I never used to like mustangs. i always liked the handling cars. but come on, what a big *** engine!!


edit! sorry i thought you meant turbo is the same thing as blower, i read it wrong. !edit

[ntn4502]

who needs a modified little car when theres the new slk with a supercharged 6, that cranks out 352 hp, for about the same as the tricked s2000, ita put it to shame- plus IMO it looks about 50 times better

[headcase]

don't get me wrong, I don't hate v8's, I just hate american v8's :P

I'll take the 3.6-liter/400-horsepower V-8 out of the 360 Modena it's good for around 111 hp per liter

[zads27]

FYI, I drive a 300zx Twin Turbo (300hp stock).

Originally posted by rhetor22
turbos are great as long as they dont come stock (cuz then what do you do hehe)

Then.. you're set already (unless you want bigger turbos for extreme amounts of power) .
Then.. you get 3" SS Y-Split Downpipes, 3" SS Testpipes, and the 3" Catback exhaust.
Dual Pop-charger intake (dual cone filters).
Get a digital (fancy pants) or manual ($75) boost controller.

Or if 13.8 (stock) in the 1/4 is good enough for you, upgrade the suspension. Put in a computer system for your ride.. Plenty of other things to do

Originally posted by rhetor22
but imho a supercharger is better. more torque and hp throughout the rev range. except for 0 rpm of course. turbos are great for high revving quarter miles and stuff, but if you're into big blocks, blower all the way!!

Well that's kind of relative. The reason why so many people with low displacement, high-rpm powerband engines go for the turbocharging (other than all the other 'ricers' are doing it), is because of that.. they are high-rpm powerbands. On the track (1/4 as well as twisties), a good driver will not drop the rpms below the powerband, and thus isn't slowed by the stifflingly adverse effects of turbo lag. Vice-versa for high-displacement engines and S/C's.




Gotta insert it somewhere:
Blah blah blah, my stock 300z can walk your 5.0 rustang.

[Zumina]

The P-51A-B Mustangs were powered by an AMERICAN Allison engine, which proved to lack crucial power and altitude capabilites. The P-51C-D Mustangs were powered by a BRITISH Rolls Royce engine, which proved to be an incredible combination.

[ShinyGuy]

Originally posted by headcase
The engine in the s2000 is VERY impressive, it is a 2.0 liter engine that puts out around 240 horsepower, that is 120 HP per liter from an normally asperated engine, I do beleve it is the highest ratio on a streetable, dealership sold car.

Not sure what car it was in but I belive Porsche has exceded 150hp per liter for a naturally asperated engine in a production car.

Originally posted by CRiZO
look at the USA's mustang (the warplane) compared to Japans Zero fighter... it's been going on for quite some time.

The Zero was designed by Howard Hughes. He sold it to Japan after the US military said they weren't interested. The amount of dammage Zeros did to us and our allies had a lot to do with his deteriorating mental state after the war.

As far as replacing displacement with RPMs thats not really a challenge either and it has a lot of problems. The wheels have to spin fairly slowly and all the gearing to get down to those speeds eats quite a bit of power. These cars that make all their power up around 6k+ RPM tend to get a lot less of it to the wheels than a V8 that puts out peak power at 3500RPM. When I'm looking at the stats for an engine I pay more attention to where peak power happens than to HP.

There are several good replacements for displacement. Loosing weight is one (and don't tell me a civic is light weight. It's hard to make one less than 1800lbs). Some of the little Fiats, Alfas and Renaults can be less than 1200lbs. The other answer is to waste less power compressing air. Roterys and 2-stoke diesels make anything anyone has done with 4-stroke gas engines look like a joke.

And just for the record I love them all. I have a 50th anniversary Porsche 928 and would like nothing better than to have a 50th anniversary Corvette and a 50th anniversary Supra to go with it.