Can anyone beat this?

[Miscue]

Beginners luck...? like solving scrambled rubik's cube on the first try...

I'm trying to work out the math...

[Spray Painter]

i beat it!!!:) accually i kind of cheated, i brought 2 games up and in one game i let him go first and in the other i went first. i mirrored his move from each of the games so in one game i lost and in the other i won.(i know i didn't really "win" but i thought it might help you(miscue) or anyone else trying to figure out how it works mathamaticly)
*if i didn't make any sence just ignore me:) *

BTW- the one i won with was the one that he went first

[Miscue]

The reason why the computer is so hard is because it knows the solution to the game. I believe that the first move is a losing move... and then it alternates back and forth between a winning and losing move. I can't get the computer to beat itself when going first, so this led me to believe that. In order for me to determine that for sure... will have to do an exhaustive search to make sure there is no possible way for a forced win to occur by moving first. If the "lucky" dude can provide me with his counter-example, yeah right... then I won't waste my time trying to verify something that isn't correct in the first place.

Here's a table of every possible setup:

0001 0002 0003 0010 0011 0012 0013 0020 0021 0022 0023 0030 0031 0032 0033
0040 0041 0042 0043 0100 0101 0102 0103 0110 0111 0112 0113 0120 0121 0122
0123 0130 0131 0132 0133 0140 0141 0142 0143 0200 0201 0202 0203 0210 0211
0212 0213 0220 0221 0222 0223 0230 0231 0232 0233 0240 0241 0242 0243 0300
0301 0302 0303 0310 0311 0312 0313 0320 0321 0322 0323 0330 0331 0332 0333
0340 0341 0342 0343 0400 0401 0402 0403 0410 0411 0412 0413 0420 0421 0422
0423 0430 0431 0432 0433 0440 0441 0442 0443 0500 0501 0502 0503 0510 0511
0512 0513 0520 0521 0522 0523 0530 0531 0532 0533 0540 0541 0542 0543 1000
1001 1002 1003 1010 1011 1012 1013 1020 1021 1022 1023 1030 1031 1032 1033
1040 1041 1042 1043 1100 1101 1102 1103 1110 1111 1112 1113 1120 1121 1122
1123 1130 1131 1132 1133 1140 1141 1142 1143 1200 1201 1202 1203 1210 1211
1212 1213 1220 1221 1222 1223 1230 1231 1232 1233 1240 1241 1242 1243 1300
1301 1302 1303 1310 1311 1312 1313 1320 1321 1322 1323 1330 1331 1332 1333
1340 1341 1342 1343 1400 1401 1402 1403 1410 1411 1412 1413 1420 1421 1422
1423 1430 1431 1432 1433 1440 1441 1442 1443 1500 1501 1502 1503 1510 1511
1512 1513 1520 1521 1522 1523 1530 1531 1532 1533 1540 1541 1542 1543 2000
2001 2002 2003 2010 2011 2012 2013 2020 2021 2022 2023 2030 2031 2032 2033
2040 2041 2042 2043 2100 2101 2102 2103 2110 2111 2112 2113 2120 2121 2122
2123 2130 2131 2132 2133 2140 2141 2142 2143 2200 2201 2202 2203 2210 2211
2212 2213 2220 2221 2222 2223 2230 2231 2232 2233 2240 2241 2242 2243 2300
2301 2302 2303 2310 2311 2312 2313 2320 2321 2322 2323 2330 2331 2332 2333
2340 2341 2342 2343 2400 2401 2402 2403 2410 2411 2412 2413 2420 2421 2422
2423 2430 2431 2432 2433 2440 2441 2442 2443 2500 2501 2502 2503 2510 2511
2512 2513 2520 2521 2522 2523 2530 2531 2532 2533 2540 2541 2542 2543 3000
3001 3002 3003 3010 3011 3012 3013 3020 3021 3022 3023 3030 3031 3032 3033
3040 3041 3042 3043 3100 3101 3102 3103 3110 3111 3112 3113 3120 3121 3122
3123 3130 3131 3132 3133 3140 3141 3142 3143 3200 3201 3202 3203 3210 3211
3212 3213 3220 3221 3222 3223 3230 3231 3232 3233 3240 3241 3242 3243 3300
3301 3302 3303 3310 3311 3312 3313 3320 3321 3322 3323 3330 3331 3332 3333
3340 3341 3342 3343 3400 3401 3402 3403 3410 3411 3412 3413 3420 3421 3422
3423 3430 3431 3432 3433 3440 3441 3442 3443 3500 3501 3502 3503 3510 3511
3512 3513 3520 3521 3522 3523 3530 3531 3532 3533 3540 3541 3542 3543 4000
4001 4002 4003 4010 4011 4012 4013 4020 4021 4022 4023 4030 4031 4032 4033
4040 4041 4042 4043 4100 4101 4102 4103 4110 4111 4112 4113 4120 4121 4122
4123 4130 4131 4132 4133 4140 4141 4142 4143 4200 4201 4202 4203 4210 4211
4212 4213 4220 4221 4222 4223 4230 4231 4232 4233 4240 4241 4242 4243 4300
4301 4302 4303 4310 4311 4312 4313 4320 4321 4322 4323 4330 4331 4332 4333
4340 4341 4342 4343 4400 4401 4402 4403 4410 4411 4412 4413 4420 4421 4422
4423 4430 4431 4432 4433 4440 4441 4442 4443 4500 4501 4502 4503 4510 4511
4512 4513 4520 4521 4522 4523 4530 4531 4532 4533 4540 4541 4542 4543 5000
5001 5002 5003 5010 5011 5012 5013 5020 5021 5022 5023 5030 5031 5032 5033
5040 5041 5042 5043 5100 5101 5102 5103 5110 5111 5112 5113 5120 5121 5122
5123 5130 5131 5132 5133 5140 5141 5142 5143 5200 5201 5202 5203 5210 5211
5212 5213 5220 5221 5222 5223 5230 5231 5232 5233 5240 5241 5242 5243 5300
5301 5302 5303 5310 5311 5312 5313 5320 5321 5322 5323 5330 5331 5332 5333
5340 5341 5342 5343 5400 5401 5402 5403 5410 5411 5412 5413 5420 5421 5422
5423 5430 5431 5432 5433 5440 5441 5442 5443 5500 5501 5502 5503 5510 5511
5512 5513 5520 5521 5522 5523 5530 5531 5532 5533 5540 5541 5542 5543 6000
6001 6002 6003 6010 6011 6012 6013 6020 6021 6022 6023 6030 6031 6032 6033
6040 6041 6042 6043 6100 6101 6102 6103 6110 6111 6112 6113 6120 6121 6122
6123 6130 6131 6132 6133 6140 6141 6142 6143 6200 6201 6202 6203 6210 6211
6212 6213 6220 6221 6222 6223 6230 6231 6232 6233 6240 6241 6242 6243 6300
6301 6302 6303 6310 6311 6312 6313 6320 6321 6322 6323 6330 6331 6332 6333
6340 6341 6342 6343 6400 6401 6402 6403 6410 6411 6412 6413 6420 6421 6422
6423 6430 6431 6432 6433 6440 6441 6442 6443 6500 6501 6502 6503 6510 6511
6512 6513 6520 6521 6522 6523 6530 6531 6532 6533 6540 6541 6542 6543
COUNTER: 839

Note that the number of possible combinations is FAR greater than 839... probably hundreds of thousands or so. (And lucky man figured a winning combination first shot supposedly.)

I may or may not write a program to mark each setup as either a win or loss... the puzzle caught my attention... and as my attention span is very short... I may find myself doing something else. We shall see.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Spray Painter

BTW- the one i one with was the one that he went first

For real? Ya sure? Ok, then that saves me several hours of coding. (Although I do have an interest in AI programming that finds solutions to these kinds of puzzles... and rubik's cubes and stuff...) :)

[Blazestorm]

I did the same thing as mango... LOL

That was funny... I was like... I won... omgeh... I won... oooooooooooo

[Dslexik]

Ok, I understand Miscue that you have obviously spent a descent ammount of time trying to crack this program very technically. When someone says "oh its beginners luck" that would make someone a little angry, because they are truly taking it for granted and making it seem easier than it really is. I can appreciate your showing people how things work in programs of the sort. I've taken programing classes and am an engineering student. I know how hard it is. But I was not trying analize the game so deeply on a matmatical level, I don't have time for that. I know that in such things it is not luck, because I didn't randomly guess. I did have a basis for my choices, which I did think through a little, but I did win the first time. So in cliche "beginners luck". If I got one of my projects to work perfectly the first time I would extatic. Its just a game though and thats all I meant to analize it as. Just like your first post was only, "you have to let him go first."
Besides that, the way you approach these problems I do truly appreciate because I do enjoy the tech side, and like what you showed in the post. Keep it commin.

[Miscue]

Tato and I looked at this, and it appears that the 1st to move is always the winner. His 1st move is a mistake... but he seems to play fine afterwards.

I figured since it was an even/odd deal... it would also be a win/lose alternation. This is true, but his initial move is a mistake... and allows you to win... although you wouldn't if he stuck to the solution from the start.

http://world.std.com/~reinhold/math/nim.html

One solution (eventually works if he repeats one of his patterns):

Remove 4 from row of 6
Remove all of row of 5
Remove lone ball

Now I see how your win on first shot is possible. Still lucky as heck... with the help of keen observation.

In my mind I was comparing this to the Towers of Hanoi problem... with say... 5 towers... where you can solve with an exhaustive, recursive solution. Guessing does no good... if you want to solve it w/o mistake... you have to know how to solve it before you make your first move.

Not the case with this puzzle it seems... the solutions once known are too simple.

[Potatoboy]

It also seems that his first move is *always* flawed. If you follow the correct procedure after his first move, you should always be able to win. If his first move is a correct move, and he continues to make correct moves you will never win.

[Potatoboy]

Oh, and for the record, Miscue and I did ruin all the fun with a few moments of sheer and utter geekitude.



After knowing the mathematical principle you cannot lose to this program. You move first you win. He moves first, he screws it up, you win.

If you don't get it after reading the page, hit Miscue or I up in the chatroom. If we have time we'll drop some knowledge on you.

Think of it as spreading the dorkiness.

[The Frymarker]

Yeah I won as well, I actually remembered how to beat him from watching a show that my son and I watch on PBS, it was the same scenario.

I wish I could have gotten a screen shot though.

Spray painter that was a great suggestion, even though you cheated you at least got to see how he was doing it.


Cool game

[Thordic]

I took me a little while to figure out what he was doing, then three tries to beat it.

[FishHook]

seems like a couple times when i got him down to something like this

XX
X
XX
i'd click Go and he'd move his hand but no pearls would disapear. anyone else have this problem?

[Miscue]

I heard about that... the original code let you put in your credit card number and gamble. He stopped working because they forgot to remove the "randomlyCheatPlayer()" routine from their code.

j/k... probably just a glitch... :)

[yeahthatsme]

i beat it!!! i did miscues four from row of 6 then all of row of 5 then i went on my own and i won!!! it was great

[EsPo]

<----- still hasnt won.. tried miscues method... didnt work...