ATT: AO Machinists. I Need Your Opinions. (Granite 1324 by Smithy)

[luke]

steveg,


Hey thanks for taking the time to help out.

OK, it sounds like Smithey may not be the way to go, are there any other alternatives to get started in a home shop. I really don't want to mortgage my house.

Can you point me in another direction?

[luke]

the mill and lathe shown on the same site are almost the cost and would be much more satisfactory.

I didn't catch this when I read it the first time,I don't have a problem buying two machines, so I will take your advice and stay away from "multi" purpose machines. When you say "these machines are questionable" do you mean "Smithey" in general or the mill/drill/lath units?

[steveg]

Luke as I said the mill/drill machine that I have is working
well enough for my needs It's a Canadian version
of the standard taiwan mill/drill (King) It's sold in
the US by Jet, Grizzley and several others, there is very
little differance between the machines other than color,
price and accessories (a free clamp kit is a very good thing)
Jet tends to be very high in price though.
most of these have 1 1/2 hp motors, and that is how they
are identified as a model.

for a lathe I bought a 7X10 but I'm not pleased with it.
weak and poorly made. the newer versions are supposed to
be better now.

I'd personally buy a 9X20 lathe everyone sells them as well
again color and accessories are the main differance.

[steveg]

most of the mill/drill machines are taiwan products
the combo machines are usually china

NONE of these machines are in the bridgeport class of construction or quality but the taiwaneses machines are
in a better class than the chinese however the chinese are
catching up apparently.

[shartley]

Originally posted by steveg
shartley I have absolutely no first hand experience with
taig however what I have "heard" about them is that the
structure of the machine is good but that the spindlehead
is the weak part .
as for the lathe I'd go with the sherline first, more expensive,
but more complete, it includes the motor and
drive. The taig lathe, as sold around here doesn't have a motor
I do have a sherline mill. it uses the same head (motor spindle and drive)
as the lathe. It works very nice.

[luke]

steveg,
Does Smithey rank in the low quality range? Are you suggesting that I stay away from them completely??

I hope this doesn't seem redundant, but I'm just trying to tie all your info together.

Thanks.............

[steveg]

shartley weak mostly means that your cuts must be very
light otherwise you will get vibration and excessive heat
in the spindle bearings. Not a problem as long as you
use it or any machine within it's own capabilities.

Luke I cannot comment on shopsmith's other machines only
on the combo, I base this on my own examination of the
local version of the combo machine (Busy Bee) and the
comments of others on various hobby machining web sites.

there are actually very few factories in taiwan manufacturing
these machines so the differant machines
really do vary mostly in color.
The advice that I can offer is, that any of these machines
will look much better in the catalogue, then in real life.
find a local store and look at them ,crank the handles,
feel is almost everything, if the handles crank smoothly
and with little slop than the screws and slides should be
ok. does the quill move smoothly without a notchy feel?
lock the quill and move the feed handle up and down, how much slop? a little is ok but not much.
look at the casting it's-self is it solid without pores?

did I mention yet that none of these machines (mill\drill)
are as accurate or capable as a real bridgeport that costs
$10000 or better. you do get what you pay for.That is not
to say that you can't use them to get good work (I'm very
humbled by some of the things people do with these "toy"
machines)

Here I should have done this at the very start

https://www.desktopcnc.com

[luke]

OK, were getting some good info here to wok with, I'll look threw your link when I have a little more time, thanks.

I got to thinking, that instead of shartley and myself bugging you to look at every machine we find, could you give us an idea of what to look for and what to stay away from?

So far this there is.

Stay away from:
Combo units, drill/mill/lath

7x10 lathes are OK but almost too small.



Want:
9x20 (or larger lath)

R-8 spindle

crank the handles, feel is almost everything, if the handles crank smoothly and with little slop than the screws and slides should be OK.

does the quill move smoothly without a notchy feel?

lock the quill and move the feed handle up and down, how much slop? a little is ok but not much.

look at the casting it's-self is it solid without pores?


A few qustions: What about RPM capabilities, power source (110 or 220) Is there any other "general" info you can give us to use as we shop?

I would also like to say that I really appreciate (and value) your opinions. I hate to jump into a purchase like this totally blind. This is how I ended up shooting a Mag.

[steveg]

luke here is a picture of a typical benchtop and infact
the model that I own.
most of these mills are around 1 1/2 hp and 220/240 v 1phase.
spindle rpm is about 3000 rpm not high but what
you get with these. spindle speed is changed with
belts and pulleys same as a drill press.
they can be wired 110/120, but at 22amps, not a good idea.

one thing to avoid are the machines with a drill press head
but with an x-y table. they are not ment or sold as milling
machines, but as drill presses and are not suitable as a mill.

next step up in price are geared head square column bench top's
the square column allows raising and lowering the
spindle head while maintaning the tool alingment, as I
said earlier with a round column this is not possible.

after that are bench top knee mills were the spindle head
is fixed and the table raises and loweres typically belt
drive.

[steveg]

square column

[steveg]

benchtop knee mill

[bornl33t]

First of all I would like to say.. I hate all of you cause you can afford what I've always wanted

I've gone through extensive mill-lathe training in 2 schools. One in europe, know for their high tolerances and quality manufacturing and one here in the US

I've not gotten many hours on CNC's though, just a few.

My experiance.

For one time aplications, customizing etc. A manual machine is MUCH more efficient. Cause you are doing everything ONCE. Plus you can compensate for errors in mesurements, surface finishes all that. Where if you were to CNC you have to write a whole program for one time use. Not very time efficient.

The CNC's are hands down THE BEST for quantities. Setup and run. Nothing more then that.

In addition to that, out of experiance you ALWAYS need a bigger machine. If you but a machine because it's the right size for what you want to do I gurantee you will in the near future wish you had gone just one step larger. Trust me

The machine I want is the price of a hummer and is just a universal mill

[luke]

Steve,

So out of the 3 pictures #3 is what to look for. (?) So, ideally I want to look for a fixed spindle head, so the work table compensates for XYZ. (?)

Can you point me to a site to look at some "bench top knee mill"

As for as 220v, I agree that's the way to go. When I built my shop I made sure I would have enough outlets for my welders and the Mill and lath. (6 in all) so that's not a problem

On a side note, I feel like a "newbe" in a Cocker vs. Mag thread. Thanks for your patience!

[steveg]

luke any of the 3 machines would serve you well
the turret mill #3 and the rest are all listed here
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...010&StartRow=1
www.jettools.com have similar models.
these are just 2 that I can find at the moment living in
Canada I don't really know what all can be found in the US.

#2 and #3 machines allow you to tilt the head side to side
something that you can't do with the #1 machine
Is that important? can't say but it wouldn't hurt either

the reason that the movable (in Z axis) head #2 and moving
table #3 is nice is that, the quill (just like a drillpress) has a
movement of only about 4~5" if you need
more z movement than that the head or table can be moved
while maintaining tool alignment.

In fact pro machinists (like festus) frequently lock the
quill and move the table up or down for heavy milling.
more rigid that way.

If you really want to spoil yourself X axis power feed is a
nice addition makes for a nice uniform cut and a lot less
cranking.

[steveg]

As for as 220v, I agree that's the way to go. When I built my shop I made sure I would have enough outlets for my welders and the Mill and lath. (6 in all) so that's not a problem

Eeeck I feel inadequate I only had 5 installed