SUVs with 3 rows?

[shartley]

[irbodden]

My dad drives a sedan so we tow our snowmobiles with my mom's minivan. It's done all the roads you can imagine, some were pretty hairy (Cleveland to Corry PA to Warren PA with 8 inches of unplowed snow on the ground).

But when it comes to SUVs, the QX4 is a sweet chick SUV from Infinity. $35,000, comes with leather, 6 disk cd, etc. Infinities are great, upscale Nissans...

And the H2 is a joke, don't even consider it. My dad and I were the first people at the dealership back in Chicago to check them out when they came out. It's small on the inside and I couldn't imagine it handling very well on the snow. My dad said it handled like a school bus with sloppy steering. It's NOT like the H1 besides the body, leave it for the baby boomers in So Cal, not for driving slick roads.

[oldsoldier]

Screw em. Get a jeep, tell the rest to walk. Heat is right. Most SUVs today are built on car platforms; Take them off road, they break. With most SUVs and minivans, AWD or 4WD wont make a difference, as you wont really be going offroading. True offroad driving requires a decent suspension, high ground clearance and a strong frame. I know for a fact the lower end SUVs are built on car frames, which makes them nothing more than large cars with push button 4WD. However, for travel in snowy conditions, with no real plans to go off-road (as I doubt your mom will), I am sure they will do just fine. I wouldnt give my jeep up for anything though
Sidenote; I feel cheap now, I am just taking my mom out to breakfast!!

[cphilip]

What I mean is that SUV's and Mini-Vans are all lumped into the same category when statistics are kept and when GVW is taken into account. They all weigh similar mass and in some cases are built on similar chasis. The term SUV is a lot muddier than it was once. Now a lot of them look like SUV but hardly are anymore.

What I mean by real 4X4 is the ability to go into "4 Low" range. And even to lock into 4 wheel high range sometimes. None of them have it and in fact now a days more and more SUV's are starting to be offered without it. Basicaly they are starting to come more and more the same equiped other than styling. Most people do not need or use "real" 4X4. But the people who realy take them off road do. Its just and observation is all. In fact a lot of the All Wheel Drive units are smart type systems and you cannot lock them into even 4 High. So that is what I mean by REAL 4 wheel drive. Its a term coined recently with the onset of these other systems to describe the fact that the systems do not let you chose what you want to be in.

I'm not sure what half you think I got right or got wrong? Mini Vans, as I stated do a real fine job of what they do. And so do SUV's for that matter. But none of them is big enough to do what a real large Van or Real Large SUV can do. That is haul 7 people and gear. Its got nothing to do with what you classify them as. It has everything to do with size more or less.

I do not realy know his situation as the sizes of the 7 he reports to want to move are not listed. But if he intended to keep this thing for a long time even if they are now a few small ones that might come into play in his decision. If it was for a few years then he might find the mid sizes of Mini's and SUV's would do him...

As to the truck thing most of the larger SUV's are indeed still built on truck platforms. The Expedition is on the F150 platform and the Excursion is on the F250 platform. And thier suspensions are capable off road. But I have no idea if he intends that or not. I doubt it. Just for the sake of consideration I point it out. Not many smaller SUV's are as you all have pointed out.

If it was me? And I was looking to haul 7 fairly full sized people (not sure thats his situation but) and their luggage and gear? Well I would not be looking at a regular sized SUV or Minivan at all. I would be looking at a full Van or large SUV. And of them I cannot think of one other than the Excusion and E350 Van that would do it with good fuel mielage simply because Chevy does not offer its Diesel in them yet. When and if they do then those options open up a bit. But in the gas versions they are all hogs and impractical. They are in the range of 10-12 MPG if that. Some report 8-10 on them. Thats not realy practical. However the Excusion and E350 folks with Diesels are reporting 17-21 MPG. Now thats doable. Hopefully Chevy will come through and start installing thier Duramax into thiers soon.

But I do not think his situation warrants that big but some people's does. And there are very few options for those people out there. I realy feel for them as those are expensive options coming in at about 40 grand. Youch!

[Remington]

Get a Honda Pilot. We got one back in November and it's a really great vehicle. If anyone has owned an early Honda Oddessy model(like 2000 or earlier) you know that the third row of seats folded down into a cargo well. The Honda Pilot does something like that, but instead of folding down into a well, they fold flat and give plenty of cargo room. If you need more room, the second row of seats folds down flat too! The only downfall that I have found with this car(or should I say SUV) is that the third row has NO foot room; it's very cramped back there. We generally only use the third row when we need to pack some extra friends into the car. The Pilot also comes with AWD which is great if you live in New England(or somewhere like it).

Check it out!

[bornl33t]

The excusion might have the suspension for off road driving, but it's weight and vertical stability make even mild off roading hazardous.

[shartley]

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Heat
The excusion might have the suspension for off road driving, but it's weight and vertical stability make even mild off roading hazardous.

Has some disadvantages in that area thats for sure. But it will do moderate stuff just fine. Its not very unstable at all. That is not a charicteristic of the Excursion. Its very stable. Its the same chasis as the F250 which can do moderate off road just fine stock. And there are indeed a group of enthusiasts that do it even more than what you and I might call moderate and they will quickly disagree with you on that one. They are serious off roaders and do some modification to them like raise em some more for clearance. I think there nuts myself but... Its not my choice for an all time Off Roader for sure! Especially small trail stuff. Thats where it is a disadvantage. But in their element they do great they just need more space is all. But it will do it better than some other choices if it has a big enough trail to move through. Thats why the Jeeps are a better choice is they are small. I would chose it just for capacity and only in the situations outlined. Large number of large people with gear and even some moderate to heavy towing while still trying to achieve reasonable fuel mileage. Not for off roading myself.

There is also a whole group of enthusiasts (other nuts) that like to go primative off road camping and there is no way to pull a Travel Trailer in those places so they buy Superduty trucks and such and put In Bed Campers on the back of them and go back into the back roads (again within reason and size limitations) and camp out in those areas. Now they again have to pick the types of roads and such that will allow them to do this. But even then not just anything will go where these campers go.

So its all a matter of degree's of what you describe as "serious offroad". What these guys do is more serious than most vehicles will do. But its not rock crawling at all. Its a different degree of it.

Not too many of them do Sam is my bet. heck I bet half of them do not even have 4 wheel drive. They use em as station wagons realy. And they like the styling better. And who is to critisize someones taste realy? Not me. It seems to be the popular thing to do now but I see very little merit to it. Politicaly correct is not my style when I see no real merit to it. If I am driving something that is as efficent as say a big station wagon (those are dead to the Mini Van now) or a Mini Van and we are all getting around the same gas mileage who cares what it looks like. And most manufacturers have addressed the stability issues by widening the stance and lowering the centers of gravity. They only had to because people were buying them for highways and not off road and getting into trouble. Now most of them are not realy so much different. Seems they are now evolving into a nice alternative for the highway. Much to the dismay of the Off Road buyers as that defeats what they wanted was clearance, and low range and limited slip between axles, but still its a step in the right direction for most people who are buying them.

But some do some moderate stuff where they like to be able to at least lock in 4X4 even if its only High Range. Lots of the people here in our Mountains do. Some if not MOST of their driveways will make you think twice about visiting and they have snow all the time. Those poor slobs love it out in the sticks and have to get in and out. So they need em. Rural America still exists. Some of em drive muddy ruts to check there Cows every day. Some of em go back in and get firewood. Some of em drag logging skidders and crew of men into muddy slick ruts to work every day. There is more of em than you might think! They gotta have a choice of something that does their work for them.

Looks to me lately like the Mini Vans itself is becoming an SUV and Visa Versa. They seem to be melding into the next multipurpose vehicle. Both of them moving towords the center and becoming one! That is not so bad realy. At some point you can have the advantages of both worlds with some limitations.

But there will always be a few folks that need rugged off road and a few that need large people mover/hauler combo's. And those are totaly different needs. I am not sure you can have all of those perfectly in one vehicle. Something has to be compromised.

[theraidenproject]

Sorry everyone, I was gone for a day, and I couldn't comment.
First, don't think of this as "just a mom car". I want her next car to be a (preferably cool) SUV, because, she (hopefully, don't know the feasibility) will give that to me when I get my license, and I don't want a wagon or a minivan. I will drive it a good amount, at least. The Suburban and others of that size are a little big, but 6 people plus gear for the shore for a week or two might redeem it. I know she's going to freak after the first trip to the gas station with something like that, but I'm afraid a big SUV will be the only thing to fill her (and my ) requirements, 6+ people and gear, moderate towing, bad weather capabilities, and looks good. I didn't know the Excursion was the only one with a diesel option. My friend's family has one. They just seem so huge, though. I think we're just going to have to go the dealerships. Oh yea, I'm neglecting the minivans, because we used to have a Dodge Caravan. We're not going that route again. The only van I'd take would be a replica A-Team van. j/k.

To address some comments:
Heat's first post: I said the Lexus would be too expensive, and the Aviator turned out to be much too expensive, when actually equipped (don't take MSRP too seriously), the Land Rover (maybe you're thinking of the Range Rover, which is around $70k, iirc) is comparable to her Volvo wagon, now.

Oldsoldier: Lol, I didn't mean to make it look like I'm buying her one, I'm just doing some preliminary research for her. I couldn't afford a $5k wreck from AutoTrader. I'm in high school, and I don't have a job.

cphillip: Good point about the sizes. My mom, her boyfriend, and I are all normal adult sized. Well, I'm 6'2" and still growing, so size is definatly a consideation. My sister, and his kids are all aroud middle school. They're all fine for third row size seats. By the time they're not, I'd be in college, and they could go with a more "regular" size vehicle.

Looking at the Excursions and Suburbans, damn, those are expensive! Even with no options or anything, they're over $40k! Mid $30s would be the limit. I think we might just end up with a mid-size SUV and have to use 2 cars on some occasions.

[cphilip]

Well if you for some reason do end up with looking at the Excursions do not just go out and just buy one. Go to theDieselstop.com and ask one of the Ford guys to let you have one of his X plan pin numbers. Ford gives them 4 or 5 a year to give to their family and "friends" and many of them give them to Board members rather than waste them. They are fairly easy to get. He/she will want your full name addy and SSN to assign you one. They will just state you are a Friend. You can get a pretty much fully optioned on for Mid 30's or so. No more than 38 anyway. But I am not pushing that option realy except that is the only Diesel one and big enough to do what I was thinking you might need to do. I was not sure though. They are all big when you get into that range. Suburban, Yukon, Excursion...they are all about the size of a class 2 truck with extended cab. All within five or six inches of each other. Thats how long they are. They are not as long as my truck which is a class 3 truck. But do not pay MSRP. I know we can get you an X plan price on a new one. Or there are two dealers on that site that will get you one at X plan and drop ship it to you. So if you realy think you are interested then you should go there and look around and learn about the problems and maintenace of one before you decide. You might decide its too much! Be sure before you decide!

But you might realy be best served with several vehicles if you think the trips with all of you would be rare. Just some things to think about is all...

[bornl33t]

DUDE! Volvo wagon? those are sweeeeeeet, they make one with 400hp!! There's nothing wrong with a volvo.

Anyway, I'd say stick with a jeep. They seat 5 comfortably and they are well under 30000$

[theraidenproject]

Thanks a ton for the link. I'm checking it out.

[Jack_Dubious]

Heres a good site that has a lot of good info on the current crop of SUVs...

SUVS





JDub

[dave_p]

i have a grand caravan sport and i will attest with the other "van people". i can load me, wife, inlaws, 2kids and all our luggage, boogie boards,beach chairs etc. down to cape may every year. we have tons of room and look good doing it! with all the weight its still hard to keep her under 80mph. with all the seats out it is absolutely cavernous.

if isuzu still makes the trooper it has full 3 row seating ,is not outrageously priced and looks pretty good as well.

[1stdeadeye]

Isuzu

Check out the Isuzu Ascender. It is the rebadged extended version of the GMC Envoy. You can pick one up for between $26 and $36k depending on how you option it out. You can get a straight 6 or V-8. My wife and I are getting ready to buy a new SUV ourselves. I hate to trade in my Grand Cherokee, but it is too small for our family and Jeep makes nothing bigger. We have narrowed our search to the Durango or Isuzu. I am leaning towards the Isuzu. I love straight 6 engines. My BMW has one and so does my Jeep.
Good Luck!

Isuzu Link