War

[oldsoldier]

Personally, burning the flag (which, although you think it is a "right" it isnt, but, it isnt a law not to), and draft dodging are two different animals. One is a political view, a choice; the other is your country asking you to help defend that very "right" to burn your own country's flag. So, I see it like this; if you feel it is your "right" to burn and/or desecrate a living symbol of our nation, yet, refuse to answer the call to arms to defend that "right", technically, you arent wrong, but you are DEFINITELY a hypocrite. You ask others to give thier lives, whether or not they believe in the cause, so you can perform this act, yet you arent willing to do the same. That is one of the most selfish things I have ever heard of. And, this goes beyond flag burning; I am talking draft dodging, violent protests, throwing things at soldiers, anything that shows animosity towards our (YOUR) country.
not everyone in the military wants to fight a war. Most of them dont want to at all. Hell, THEY may not think it right either. But, no matter what they THINK, they SWORE an oath to defend this country against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. And to follow the lawful orders of those appointed above him.
For armchair lawyers, spies, and soldiers; there is a lot we dont know. But, Saddam has violated the resolution. We dont need to prove he did...hell they ADMITTED 2 days ago that the tape of bin Laden was a rumor, then it AIRED on the same station that rebutted it! Does that sound like cooperation? Or, more like lying? And, before you say it is just a radio station, it is owned by the gov't there...they control anything that goes out over the airwaves. Iraq is stalling for time...if the UN doesnt back up its resolution, it loses face. We pull out of it, it crumbles. It crumbles, not more aid for the world. See the loop here? War is, unfortunatley, a necessary evil. No one goes to war wanting to die; hell, you dont even care why you are there! You worry about getting your *** home alive.
If you dodge the draft, you are a coward. you can justify it any way you want; your country asked for your help, you turned your back and ran away. Rationalize it if you want. It is what it is.
Benjamin Franklin; judge me not by my words, but by my actions. I challenge the same to the folks here.


If you take this perosnally, oh well. It isnt meant as a personal attack against anyone though. But, if the shoe fits...

[shartley]

Here here.

[DMFunk]

Ugh...

Yeah thats all we need, we are going to war, and then we decide not to get along on a simple forum on a sport... will everyone just calm down and stop being arsecrackers, if Darklord dosent want to go to war he shouldn't have to. Why should one have to fight for what they dont believe. i can see the other side, the people that support the war, yes war is good for the economy, but have you guys thoght up the other side to it.
Bush Sr. Failed to kill Saddam, so what does he do? He send sonny boy after him.
Bush Jr. sees he has Function-ed up the economy, and war can increase the economy because production of war related items increases, creating jobs.

In the end I'm asking not to be Flamed at for this, this is my opinion, and you can all have your own, but we can't fight about something like this. This is a small argument, there are bigger fish to fry....

[darklord]

Originally posted by shartley

PM me with written proof otherwise. I could say more, but then I'm sure you'd criticize me again. God forbid I go against the grain and have a different opinion.

[darklord]

Originally posted by oldsoldier
If you dodge the draft, you are a coward. you can justify it any way you want; your country asked for your help, you turned your back and ran away. Rationalize it if you want. It is what it is.
Benjamin Franklin; judge me not by my words, but by my actions. I challenge the same to the folks here.


If you take this perosnally, oh well. It isnt meant as a personal attack against anyone though. But, if the shoe fits...

I wonder if you'd think the same way having only existed 18 years on this earth? I'm not going to take that personally, but rather, I think you should follow Franklin's own advice as well. Don't flame me, you don't know me, you don't know what I'm going to do, you're all just flaming me for saying certain things. If the draft is enstated, and I am given the choice, you DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WILL DO.

Oh and I respect soldiers and members of the military, I always have.

[shartley]

Originally posted by darklord
PM me with written proof otherwise. I could say more, but then I'm sure you'd criticize me again. God forbid I go against the grain and have a different opinion.

[oldsoldier]

Re: Ugh...

Originally posted by DMFunk

Bush Sr. Failed to kill Saddam, so what does he do? He send sonny boy after him.
Bush Jr. sees he has Function-ed up the economy, and war can increase the economy because production of war related items increases, creating jobs.

No, the Gulf war was about liberating Kuwait, and preventing a further hostile action from Saddam into Saudi Arabia. they asked us to help out; our ONLY goal, per the UN, was the liberation of Kuwait. THAT is where the UN failed. They banked on an overthrow ow the regime within 6 weeks...well, they were wrong. The next administration catered to Saddam...we never enforced UN resolutions upon Iraq. At least, not to any real degree. We had several chances to start a coup in the country, preventing the loss of any American lives; Clinton denied each and every request. Saddam is too well rooted there now to ask him to leave. we have even given him a chance to go into exile as recently as a month ago...he is still there. This goes much deeper than most people realize. IT is about oil, money, our interests in the mideast, world economy, terrorism, the prevention of the spread of nuclear devices to those who would use them offensively. And, if you think "we dont need their oil", you REALLY need an economics class. The US makes more money exporting our crude oil, and importing refined petroleum. But, it goes beyond just oil. there are whole nations that could be lost or gained, depending on our future actions.

[darklord]

Originally posted by shartley

You keep reiterating that my "facts are dead wrong", and yet, you present NO ACTUAL PROOF. And it's your own analyzation that I presented my opinions as facts, I never said they were true. Oh and I guess the Sultan SHartley, ruler of us all, knows everything, right? Just because I offered evidence to disprove one of your "facts" doesn't necessarily make me wrong by default. If you are a "WWII buff", that doesn't mean you can offer written proof or quotes to prove what you say is true. My "facts" may be getting intertwined with others in my mind... I may have been thinking that Pearl Harbor drew the US into the war with Japan. I'm not perfect!

[battlegroup]

I am a professional soldier by choice. I know that it is not the profession for everyone. But I do put my life on the line almost daily, whether we are at war or not, in keeping our forces strong. Why do I do it? Not for the money! Because I feel I owe everything I have to those who laid down thier lives before me.

For most countries a strong U.S. Military is enough to deter an attack on the U.S. I hear so much about this war and whether it is right or not, I still choose to answer the call of my country that has given me so many freedoms. Although I don't think there would be a draft, if there was, I believe anyone who doesn't honor the call if they are choosen is a coward and doesn't deserve the freedoms they are enjoying. Not only are they hurting the country that you live in but the many soldiers who are already fighting for their country and their lives.

Do I agree with attacking Iraq? Yes, because I feel he has wepons of mass destruction and if left alone will find a way to use them against american interests.


I know I'm getting the quote wrong and my history stinks for not knowing who said it but:
"My country, may she always be right, but right or wrong, it's still my country!"

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by darklord
I wonder if you'd think the same way having only existed 18 years on this earth?

There are thousands of soldiers under 20 in our Armed Forces and ROTC programs in college. Im turning 18 in 8 days. Its a possibility that war will grow and there may be a draft(small--but none the less possible). I will be ready and willing to step up to war if thats how my country decides is best to use me.

[darklord]

Originally posted by Kevmaster


There are thousands of soldiers under 20 in our Armed Forces and ROTC programs in college. Im turning 18 in 8 days. Its a possibility that war will grow and there may be a draft(small--but none the less possible). I will be ready and willing to step up to war if thats how my country decides is best to use me.

I have a few friends who are enlisting in the army, so let me just say, I respect that. However, a few people like you, and friends I know, are ready to fight and die at such a young age, I think the majority are not.

[battlegroup]

Very few people want to go to war. There are some who enjoy it or get a rush out of it but they are the minority. However, there is a difference between WANTING to go to war and ANSWERING THE CALL if necessary. I for one do not WANT to go to war but if I get the call I will answer it.

[darklord]

Originally posted by battlegroup
Very few people want to go to war. There are some who enjoy it or get a rush out of it but they are the minority. However, there is a difference between WANTING to go to war and ANSWERING THE CALL if necessary. I for one do not WANT to go to war but if I get the call I will answer it.