Why Rage Against the Machine SUCKS

[Restola]

what???

im guessing the statement i was responding too should answer your question.

...and I support their opinions because they are unique. I may not aggree with some of their statements, however I do stand with them because they voice their opinions and don't fall in with the masses.

therefore i mentioned several groups with 'unique' and vocal opinions wondering if he would support them because they are different. i dont think Maxd Out's statement made sense. clearly others did not think mine did either.

[Maxd Out]

Originally posted by Maxd Out
I may not aggree with some of their statements, however I do stand with them because they voice their opinions and don't fall in with the masses.

Let me clarify: Restola I have to thank you for being the devils advocate.

There is a difference in voicing political opinions and propeganda. The groups you mentioned- the Klan and the American Nazi Party- are hate groups. I do not know their doctorine, I do not care to either. However I do know that they feel superior and try to make others inferior and their whole premise is based in a complete load of crap. I IN NO WAY SUPPORT EITHER OF THESE GROUPS OR ANY AFFILIATED GROUPS! ( I dont know how you fit greenpeace in there so I will leave it alone for now)

Rage Against the Machine is the exact opposite of these. They are the inferior, the poor etc. trapped inside the "Evil Empire" of capitalism. They voice an opinion against what they believe is corrupt society. For this they are unique, and this ability to be unique makes America great (notice how I contradict). Yes this ability to be unique also permits the unfavorable groups to exist, however when we begin to police them, we begin to destroy free society. Getting back to RATM, standing up for beliefs needs a premise. RATM certainly has one. "minorities are inferior and need to leave" is not a valid premise in my opinion so the Klan and the ANP don't stand up to my interpretation.

If you need any help understanding my view or if you find another loophole, please post again because I am willing to type it out so that even hypercritics like yourself are satisfied.

-P.S. Webby-
When RATM found out that their record company tried to ban napster users who had bootlegged copies of their latest album, they put the whole album on MP3 for free on their website. Hows that for trying to make a quick buck?

[Webmaster]

Ive never accused RATM of trying to make a quick buck. Honestly I feel Zak Dela Rocha is very smart - I have heard him in several interviews. And IIRC the drummer dropped out of Harvard to play in band. They are bright people with ideals that they believe in and stick by.

Again - I think they are foolish...America and its capitalist system is the only place some guy with only a high school education, can start a dime store in the middle of hick country in Arkansas, and later grow it into the a multi billion dollar company and the largest retail chain in the world (that would ge Sam Walton and Wal-Mart)

[shartley]

And I have to agree with Webby on that one. With all the bad things people would like to "sing" about, no place is as great as the US of A!

And I would also like to point out that they are missing a big part of the picture (or their FANS are). The ONLY place that would allow them to make money off of "dissing" the Government and Society they live in, is the SAME place they are complaining about. I find this ironic, and in that aspect alone, their songs and rhetoric hold no actual meaning other than to make a buck in my book. I do fully understand the "artistic" value of some of it though, and am not commenting on their talent or drive. Those are totally different issues, and ones not being debated.

And for those who point out that it is NOT about money because they GIVE their stuff away... LOL Please... If you make $500,000,000 (note: this is a generic number) and convince the public that you have NOTHING (by the way you dress, talk, etc.), and give away what would amount to only a small fraction of your total gross income (or potential income) from Concerts, paraphernalia, CD's, etc., it is all lip service in the grand scheme of things. It IS about money. And I am sure their Accountants would agree with this.

Sometimes fostering the Anti-Money / Anti-Government (Society) image can pay back 10-fold. It is a quite common marketing ploy, and works great. This does not mean they are not sincere in their lyrics, or in the message they want to get out... but it is NOT the only thing that matters to them. And the real world still requires the mighty dollar to allow their message to be heard. It is an endless cycle that is totally dependent on the Society they so love complaining about.

It is the ideal marriage of Sociology and Marketing... as well as taking full advantage of "sheep mentality". Why is it that those who claim to be such staunch individualists are just like all the other staunch individualists?



Keep it light.. folks. Our lives seldom change in measurable ways simply by the music we listen to. It is ENTERTAINMENT. While my children listen to RnB and Dance Music, and my Wife and I listen to Country and Classic Rock, we ALL share the same basic values. We all get cold when the wind blows. We all love each other. We all get hungry and have to eat. The list is endless....

Every generation tries for the "shock" value, and are so "unique". They said it for Chuck Berry, Elvis, and almost every form of music and Entertainer that has been a bit out of the "norm". And the thing that remains constant is the fact that it is ALL Entertainment. When you look at the real changes caused by it, you will see the biggest impact is usually for the actual performers... NOT the society they are in. The music tends to be a reflection (although often a bit warped) of the society or a portion of its members, NOT the other way around.

Social change does not come about only by the music we listen to. You can not change a system from the outside, it must be done from within. But that takes MUCH more work than singing... which is entertainment.. and darn good entertainment at that. So, lets continue to be entertained and have the presence of mind to know the difference.

These Artist know the true deal, or they would not still be in business. And getting upset about it on a Message Board will do what exactly?

[PowerFedMag]

it will waste

valuable studying time.

oh well, screw SAT's.
Time to fantacize about pball some more.

[shartley]

LOL Good one!

I am glad the first person to post after mine took it in the correct spirit.

[cheetah256]

rage

actually, rage isn't made up of socialists. they just think that certain things about the american government are too easily corrupted. the guitar player graduated from Harvard, so he's not exactly stupid.

[Webmaster]

You dont have to be stupid to be a socialists. And as I said, I think the members of RATM are well read. Many very smart people are socialists. Socialism isnt inherently evil - its a nobel idea - everyone work and everyone earn the same rewards. The problem is there is no insentive to work hard. People to just enough to get by - whats the point? there is no promotion and everyone gets the same in the end. (Sorta why I feel modern unions are a form of socialism, but thats a whole nother thread).

And if you look at many of the books they suggest etc, I think the ideal government would be a democratic socialist one. I could be wrong - I havent heard them state that, but thier mantras seem to point that way.

And socialism isnt the same as communism - nor is it what is actually practiced in some supposed "socialist" nations.

[fenris69]

example

if youd like a good example of socialism on a small scale, look at a kibbutz. it works...but everyone has to be on the same page, which I think is simply impossible large scale.

[PowerFedMag]

well

I think Rage Against the Machine's music is rather repetitive, and their voices remind me of the Beastie Boys, except the Beastie Boys are better.
I also think they shouldn't be so rage filled, especially when the USA is the best place to be (in terms of stability and power, and freedom), and every government is gunna have some corruption...HUMAN NATURE, just becuase some government ppl are corrupt don't make the whole system an evil evil empire.
So why don't you all bust yer RATM CD's and delete their M93's (unless of course you just enjoy their music), and all us pro-US government type ppl will be happy, and all the "Lets not conform" ppl wont have to worry about this topic anymore! HURRAY

oh yea, then listen to Static-X "Push It", and play some paintball (as a frontman of course)

[DeVioSiTY]

You forget that in the current times, the US stability has gone down the tubes, we just lost a lot of our freedoms (well mainly just privacy).

And our whole government is stuck in the mud with the greed of corporate dollars. Where do you think all the lobbyists, campaign funding, and advertisements come from?

While the webmaster does have some good points. Wal-mart is not a private company, just another corporate giant, fueled by high profit margin, with no respect or concern for the little guy that set up his little dime store in middle of a small town.

I would much rather live next to a bunch of small independantly run stores, with real friendly people that you can talk to(rather than a fake thank you for coming smile) than a some kind of alter to the gods of concrete and parking lots that house a rotating cast of nameless employees only so that they can maintain everyone only makes minimum wage to keep their profits high.

Think about it.... I'm rather scared the way the US has turned in the last year. I'm also worried which other rights granted by our constitution are going to be taken away. How can we be sure our voices get heard by those people who make our laws and policies, when in fact who we vote for and elect isn't the one who holds office?

[Webmaster]

DeVioSiTY

You are right to point out that large corporations have power in the world. As well they should. You are right, Wal-Mart is a large corporation now - but thats not how it started out. It did start out as small friendly store. The "greeter" is unique to wal-mart and an artifact from the earlier days when wal-mart was smaller. And to be honest, Sam wanted to keep things smaller, "friendlier", but was later pushed by others in the company to make it bigger and better...

So - looking Wal-Mart for a minute - who is now accused (not neccessarily by you) as being an uncaring corporatation.

Where should Sam Walton have stopped? Should the moment he made his first million he should have been content? Should the moment the company made 1 billion dollars, the gov. come in and seize control... you are no longer a nice company, but a faceless corporationg - we are going to control you now.

Think about this - while Wal-Mart isnt the greatest place on earth to work - think of the thousands of stores in this county. Think of the hundreds of people who work at each of those stores. Now- if walmart only had 10 stores in the world - where would those other hundreds of thousands of people work? Yes, being a cashier at minium wage is a crappy job - but lets be honest - these arent engineers working in the lines, its students and unskilled laborers. Where else but a large corporation could an unskilled laborer work, get decent health coverage, and also recieve stock in the company (there are a many a person who became millionaires after working with walmart in the early years and had a stock split or two). And they also promote with in ranks - many people in the executive position at walmart started in the stock room.

Now - you may counter - well- if there were no walmarts, there would be more mom and pop friendly shops!

Maybe. Maybe not. The fact is it is expensive to run a store like a walmart. First of all, the reason prices are low and you can find some good deals at walmart is due to thier huge buying power. Indeed, walmart pioneered computerized POS delivery systems - where all the stores were linked up to one central location and all the inventory automatically counted and ordred via the computer. Only a few widgets left on the shelf? The computer automatically orders more.

So - lets say that this mom and pop still opens - can it hire as many employees. Probably not. Can it provide good health care - maybe, but at a higher cost. What about retirement? Certainly no stock options - so they have to rely on another 401k plan. What happens if the mom and pop has a couple bad years? Well, a walmart can be propped up by the other stores - while the mom and pop is forced to close when the banks come a calling.

What about layoffs? Especially in this day and age, people are angry about layoffs. Indeed, that is one of the dangers of working for a large company, is they may have to lay off a few thousand people during rough times. While this is bad for the person being laid off, it is GOOD for the company. Which is better, lay off a few 1000 people to keep a company running - or try to hold on to everyone, go bankrupt and then NO ONE has a job.

I would tend to agree that CEOs and executives make too much money some times - but at the same time some of them have earned it.

If the CEO started his biz, took the risk to take out a bank loan, put a third morgage on the house and sold the car while working 80hrs a week, then he deserves to reap his rewards when the company becomes profitable.

If an executive is in charge of a certain aspect of the company, and his direction and leadership create 1 million for the company, then he too deserves to reap some of that reward.

But there are also truely STUPID rewards for these people who dont earn it - the one coming to mind is the ex CEO of WebVan.

People frown on Nike and the like getting rich from cheap foriegn labor. Well -first of all- you think Nikes cost alot now - wait tell you have some union worker who makes a decent wage, yet doesnt produces as many shoes per day making your Nikes - then only michael jordan could afford them.

But at the same time - who else if giving these people jobs? Sure, living in a less fortunate country may suck - but at least by having foriegn plants in thier country, they can get a job and hope to better themselves.

Back on track - capitalism doesnt really have anything to do with your rights being stripped. I agree - it is scary some of the proposals to "protect america". I think we need to mail everyone in congress a copy of Orwells "1984". While thier acts may be noble - they are laying the stones for an authoritative or totalitarian government. The famouse quote goes "Those who sacrifice freedom from security deserve niether." I say let EVERYONE carry .45s onto planes - then see who is eager to high jack them.

Hmm - I have no idea where I am in this rant, so I shall end it...