On a manual transmission....

[BlackVCG]

Yes, I fully realize that you'll wear out the throw-out bearing by riding the clutch. That's why I take my foot of it when I'm not working it.

Still, what does it matter what the distance between the brake and clutch is? In heel-toe and double clutching you're still working the brake and gas with your right foot.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by gtrsi


Its a driving technique called "heal toe" Here in the states we are immune to real race car driving and prefer mundane autosports such as driving straight or driving straight and then turning left.

Heal Toe and Double clutching

The link you gave is kinda ok...but then the double de-clutch is a technique only applied to older vehicles (look at the owner club that posted it) and until recently was still a requirement for a HGV test (Truck license exam)

His description of the heel and toe technique is dangerous to say the least...I do the same thing but actually use my heel to engage the brake and my toe to keep the accelerator pedal working.....extreme sharp cornering is the only time that it is used generally when shifting from 4 - 2 . A bit further up the use of the word "performance" was used as a justification to describe the pedal layout.....a Jetta is a sewing machine on wheels, with questionable brakes and a horrible body roll, so no this isn't a performance car...european yes but even that doesn't explain the pedal location....it is just that there aren't that many manuals on that side of the atlantic so you guys (and girls) aren't used to what you seeing, when you do get the chance. Something that annoys me is that as far as I have it explained to me...In America you have to pass a driving test (no problem there) but you can do so in an automatic car and then the moment you have the pass notice you can get striaght into a manual car and drive it...this is SO SO dangerous as clutch control is a skill all its own...in my country you can pass your test in an automatic but if you do so your license is marked in such as way as you are only legal to drive automatics until such time as you pass a test using a manual gearbox.

[rhetor22]

My sport-truck... yeah, thing handles like a dream has same size clutch and brake pedals. They're evenly spaced, and it has a foot rest, and the e-brake.

So you know, when i'm rally racing in my pickup, and i'm heel toeing, i like to let the back end whip out and powerslide the corners. I do 1/4 mile in like 3 seconds.

[GT]

Originally posted by MarkM
The link you gave is kinda ok...but then the double de-clutch is a technique only applied to older vehicles

Not really,
most Jap cars lack a 1st gear syncros, and reverse, so double clutch to get it into first. Also this is the first little link I could find on heal toe. I have a great vid from the miata club but I cant find it.

jb

[MarkM]

Originally posted by gtrsi


Not really,
most Jap cars lack a 1st gear syncros, and reverse, so double clutch to get it into first. Also this is the first little link I could find on heal toe. I have a great vid from the miata club but I cant find it.

jb

And you didn't read the link you gave then.....you don't have any need for 1st gear after you have pulled away and if you crunch 1st gear you shouldn't drive a manual, reverse is a different situation as generally if you crunch the gear it is because you have tried to engage the gear before the engine has reached an idle state (getaway drivers in the movies do it quickly but in real life you don't have to) so to double clutch to save your gearbox is null and void as the modern car has full synchro.....the car owner group from which the link came it would be sensible to double clutch on them Heel and toe is a speed shifting technique to ensure that you do not get any "lag" in your motion. Used to great effect in rally driving and other similar motor sports.

[rhetor22]

Do you understand what double clutching is for?

It's to get the input shaft and the output shaft moving in the same speed so that you can slip it into gear. Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but when you shift into first/reverse, aren't you almost always at a stop? Now if you're idling, and you disengage the clutch, the input shaft aint spinning too fast, so you can just shift it on into first/reverse.

Since the other gears have synchros, double clutching is not only pointless, but bad for your engine.

My friend was convinced that he needed to double clutch to go fast. He had an 89 prelude.

After a few months of him driving it like that, he told me, "the engine is making a really bad grinding noise!"

I knew right away what it was. He ruined his rear main from the stress of the rotating mass of the clutch engaging and rapidly slowing down (he would rev the thing to high hell before he dumped the clutch), torqing the crank against the rear main, and ruining it.



and also:

double clutching to get into first is useless because you're starting from nuetral, so its pointless to disengage the clutch, rev, then engage.

If you're talking about downshifting, downshifting into first gear isn't a great idea. First of all there's no point because at that point you're going slow enough that your brakes could easily lock up the tires, second, the first gear is so low that you could easily lose traction dumping it into first.

[GT]

Originally posted by rhetor22
Do you understand what double clutching is for?

and also:

double clutching to get into first is useless because you're starting from nuetral, so its pointless to disengage the clutch, rev, then engage.

If you're talking about downshifting, downshifting into first gear isn't a great idea. First of all there's no point because at that point you're going slow enough that your brakes could easily lock up the tires, second, the first gear is so low that you could easily lose traction dumping it into first.

I think you are a little mistaken here. Run a short autoX. You cannot stop and then go to first, you must double clutch and throgh it into first. This is used for optimum power for high strung engines. If made 90% of my trq at 2k rpm in wouldnt be an issue however it is.

They talk about it here at willow brook;

http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=000661

Here is some chat from some semi-expert am racers.

http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=000610

Sorry just went through that link I posted ealrier it sux. I cant find this dam heal toe vid.

jb

[rhetor22]

yes, but aren't we talking about honda civics? Not exactly rally racers.

I just re-read my post, if that sounds a bit... i dunno... pissed off sounding, i didn't mean for it to be.


Oh and for the big semi trucks:

Back when they didn't have the really advanced trannys, truckers would usually only use the clutch for first gear. Since the ratios are so close, and the rev range and power band so narrow, they can just slip it into gear without pushing in the clutch. I would call it powershifting, but they aint going anywhere fast

[GT]

Originally posted by rhetor22
yes, but aren't we talking about honda civics? Not exactly rally racers.

I just re-read my post, if that sounds a bit... i dunno... pissed off sounding, i didn't mean for it to be.

You might want to check the rally classes. Civic makes a good cheap rally beater.

Yea I read your post and was like WTF crawled up his shorts?

jb

[rhetor22]

so does ford


yeah sorry about that last post up there. i think i hit the wrong button.