downloading rant - warning it's large!

[Eric Cartman]

[Eric Cartman]

[Crighton]

Personally my main problem is the nazi style law suits the RIAA is currently using. Granted downloading is wrong BUT the punishment should fit the crime. Going after the average joe who stole perhaps $1000 bucks worth of CDs for over a million in a law suit is just wrong. Thats more than enough to wreck familys and dreams for an entire persons life.


I personally have not bought a CD in years. I stopped buying CDs before napster. Why? because I always feel ripped off when I pay 15 bucks for 2 tracks. I'm far from alone. The industry should have addressed this issue years ago. Instead they refused and took to fighting the long pointless fight. Now finally after wasting tons of time and money they are starting to offer online track sales. They could have been a leader in online music sales and distribution if they had been an early adopter.

[ShooterJM]

Re: downloading rant - warning it's large!

Originally posted by Eric Cartman

No offense, but do you think just MAYBE part of the downturn would be due to buying a CD is largely a luxury and we're in a bit of an economic slump? Or that despite the slump CD's went UP in price? Or maybe consumer backlash? On top of all that you're making the HUGE assumption that if a song wasn't available for download, that person would buy the CD. That is a horribly faulty assumption.


Yeah it sucks people are losing their jobs, but to base it on unsubstatiated claims is a bit off.

[InfinatyBPS]

I have only bought 1 CD in my life, which was a Rob Zombie CD. I am never going to pay $20 for something that I can just get a copy from my friend. Why? Mostly because I don't know if I'm gonna like the songs or not. I know through all the music I have downloaded, half of them I never listen to. If this were a p2p thing, I would have lost about $500 on stuff that I never listen to. I just like to download stuff to see if I like and want something, half of the time I don't. And the record companys aren't losing any money from me downloading because I wasn't going to buy a CD anyways, unless there is a CD that I realy like, alot, I won't buy it, now I will probably never buy another CD again, because I'm not going to waste $20 on something I don't know if I'm going to like or not. And you say that these p2p things are good, wow pay a dollar a song, well what if you don't like a song, are you going to get your money back? Probably not? What if you don't have a credit card, are you going to send $1 for every song you DL, then wait a week, then DL it The truth is I doubt your company is feeling any economic effects of music downloading, if anything you are getting more people discovering your music and mabe even buying your albums. But it seems that most of the record companys don't care about the happiness of the consumer, weather or not they like what they bought, they just want their money.

[superdesk2007]

I think the lack of cd sales is because the quality of music has gone down.(My opinion)

[FutureMagOwner]

i agree. i buy cds because i know people are losing jobs(not just the little guy my uncle used to be somewhat wealthy and now he is really needing a job to keep his house, etc, and my aunt and him just had twins and he used to be a vice president or something of some manufacturing company) i buy a cd because i support the bands that the make the music and the ones who operate the forklifts.

just recently the cd shop next door to where i work went outta business because he couldnt afford to keep it open because of people downloading music now.

i make $40-50 a week. most of that goes to paintball. i still buy cds so dont give me this i cant afford a $20 cd because of the economy garbage the fact that people dont spend money on products is why the economy sucks now anyway.

[Eric Cartman]

Wow. Interesting.

Personally my main problem is the nazi style law suits the RIAA is currently using. Granted downloading is wrong BUT the punishment should fit the crime.

There's that nazi thing again. Can we all PLEASE stop trivializing that? Aside from that, I agree, the damages seem excessive to me.

The industry should have addressed this issue years ago.

Actually we've been trying. Really. There have been about three really big deals (that I have known about) that were going to be the big legitimate download services, but they all fell apart. And even now one of the biggest issues is trying to determine all of the people / companies that are due royalties on each and every track of an enormous catalogue, most of which was recorded in pre-digital days. The logistics of this alone is mind boggling. The industry was late yes, but serious efforts were afoot before most people seem to realize.

No offense, but do you think just MAYBE part of the downturn would be due to buying a CD is largely a luxury and we're in a bit of an economic slump?

Actually no. I'm with you, I wouldn't be buying CDs ifI was short of cash, but surprisingly enough (or maybe not) people really want to be entertained when times are tough. We've gone through some pretty steep economic downturns in my life in Canada, but the entertainment industry has been almost recession proof. The video sales illustrated this more than the audio sales.

On top of all that you're making the HUGE assumption that if a song wasn't available for download, that person would buy the CD. That is a horribly faulty assumption.

That would be true as an absolute, but I will say that there is definitely a percentage of sales that are lost I'll try to dig up some figures when I'm at work tomorrow, but our whole industry (music) is down considerably and this has been pretty much in line with the growth of online piracy.

The truth is I doubt your company is feeling any economic effects of music downloading, if anything you are getting more people discovering your music and mabe even buying your albums.

I assure you, I've seen the end of teh good times at my company for quite some time unless there is a drastic change in the near future. While I agree that the internet is a fantastic way to market music and make it available to a far wider range of people, i have to say that the illegal downloading is hurtng the industry and it's hurting the music. Who knows? According to most people this can't be stopped, so maybe we'll get to see just how bad it can really get. You think the quality of the music has gone down now? I think it'll be a big surprise how much music suffers along with the industry. Especially when new talent can't afford to get out there.

Good points all, thanks

[AngelBoy]

OK, so by downloading music, were hurting the little guys. My question is, if the artists cant do what they do without you, then why arent you cutting down on the money that they get from CDs? I mean, if we keep downloading music, and the people at the recording studios are losing their jobs, then wouldnt the artists start to hurt from that? And if that is true, then wouldnt they have to start buying $500,000 homes instead of $4million homes? Im not seeing any loss of anything on the artists side. Shouldnt you be talking to the artists also, and trying to get them to realize that unless they give a little back to the people that helped them, that they wont be able to continue to live the ways they live?

And I still dont see how the RIAA is losing at least $750 for EACH song someone downloads (thats the price that was on the news). How many songs are on the average cd? 13? That would mean that a cd would cost $9,000.... Isnt there something wrong with that? What about previewing music? How can we see what we like when the only way we can hear the music is by what they decide to play on the radio?

Maybe Im not understanding something, but I dont see how people can be losing their jobs and the artists still having ANYTHING that they could EVER POSSIBLY WANT.

[Vash02]

Thank you for enlightening us with the perspective of someone directly related to the recording industry. With that said i need to say a few things.

Firstly, if anything Kazaa has increased my buying of cd's. Usually i hear a song and then decide that i'd like the whole cd. Alot of the bands i like now i would have never even heard if it wasnt for kazaa.

Secondly, I couldnt agree more with most of the people here on AO. the RIAA is approaching this thing WAY wrong. Do you think they even realize what these law suits are doing to the KIDS they are trying to sue? Take for example the 19 year-old in college that just settled out of court with the RIAA for $12,000. Thats an insane amount, especially considering that all he did was design a file-sharing program at his college. Was it his fault that other idiots used it to share music?

Thirdly, I know that the industry is tryig to fight the piracy but it is a losing cause. The RIAA is trying to catch the kids sharing the music but now the P2P programs are making new things to help the customers avoid persecution. I know the new update of kazaa has some sort of encoding device that makes it nearly impossible for them to get your IP information. Seems to me the only really way to stop piracy is to stop the P2P providers and Kazaa already made it out of a law-suit that tried to do this.

Its sad that you are having a tought time at work but it aint better anywhere else. Your people are getting laid off but so is just about everyone else in our nation. Hopefully the next few years are more prosporous for us all.

[AngelBoy]

Originally posted by Vash02

Secondly, I couldnt agree more with most of the people here on AO. the RIAA is approaching this thing WAY wrong. Do you think they even realize what these law suits are doing to the KIDS they are trying to sue? Take for example the 19 year-old in college that just settled out of court with the RIAA for $12,000. Thats an insane amount, especially considering that all he did was design a file-sharing program at his college. Was it his fault that other idiots used it to share music?

That kid didnt just get sued for making a search engine, he was just one of the first that got sued for the illegal MP3s he had. And $12,000 would be considered a very low amount compared to some of the others that are in the millions.

[Vash02]

Millions...that number just makes me angry. Screw the RIAA.

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by AngelBoy
And I still dont see how the RIAA is losing at least $750 for EACH song someone downloads (thats the price that was on the news). How many songs are on the average cd? 13? That would mean that a cd would cost $9,000.... Isnt there something wrong with that? What about previewing music? How can we see what we like when the only way we can hear the music is by what they decide to play on the radio?

i think you mis-interpreted that statement. lets say i put up a tool song for download. 4-5 or more people download it, then those people have people that download it, and so on and so forth and thats where you get your 750 a song or more.

[Eric Cartman]

My question is, if the artists cant do what they do without you, then why arent you cutting down on the money that they get from CDs?

Actually the artists get their money from a number of different ways. They may sign a contract worth X amount of dollars to produce Y amount of albums in a given time period. They also get royalties paid to them each time their tracks are played on the radio. The amount of money that they get from each CD is relatively small for the most part. A lot of the cost of a CD comes from having the artwork designed, getting the graphics printed, having the whole thing produced and assembled and then distributed. Each sticker placed on teh packaging, each extra panel of the folder and every extra colour used in the graphics raises the cost of production. In the end, there's not really much that can be cut from there. I know it's hard to feel sorry for established artists (and overpaid athletes). Like I said, It's the litle guys who are bearing the brunt of this.

Firstly, if anything Kazaa has increased my buying of cd's.

I've heard this before. I wish it was true of more people, but unfortunately I believe that you and those like you are in the minority. If everyone just sampled music online and then purchased what they liked, I don't think we'd have a problem at all. And I agree that I believe that the RIAA suits are out of hand, but I think they are trying to prove a point. They're just being unreasonable about it. I still figuer that if you get busted, you should suck it up and deal with it though. Just because RIAA's out of line doesn't excuse the theft. The new Kazaa might be harder to get around as far as tracking users down, but they will get around it... then Kazaa will be improved again, and on it will go...

i think you mis-interpreted that statement. lets say i put up a tool song for download. 4-5 or more people download it, then those people have people that download it, and so on and so forth and thats where you get your 750 a song or more.

Exactly. (Tool rocks! Maynard scares me a bit though!)

All I'm saying is that you should support what you like and thereby support the people who are honestly out there trying to bring good music out into the world. Believe it or not, there are still a lot of people in the industry like that, although it's easy to lose sight of that fact.

Again, thanks for the responses.

Cheers.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Eric Cartman
I've heard this before. I wish it was true of more people, but unfortunately I believe that you and those like you are in the minority. If everyone just sampled music online and then purchased what they liked, I don't think we'd have a problem at all. And I agree that I believe that the RIAA suits are out of hand, but I think they are trying to prove a point. They're just being unreasonable about it.

Another thing to note is that this is the same argument the music industry used against FM radio. That it would "destroy" the industry and must be stopped.