downloading rant - warning it's large!

[FutureMagOwner]

hmm how is it not stealing? explain it to me. since when is taking a product without paying for it not stealing? the fact is the music industry is just like every other industry they try to make a profit yet when it comes to music omg i cant believe that they want to make money how rude i guess ill just steal it.


the same applies to downloading programs such as photoshop its still illegal so dont try and say it isnt.

[Star_Base_CGI]

You know I worked in the grocery industy so perhaps my experience can be related.

The grocery industry claims it doesnt make any money. Yet they over mark prices as the see fit, %200 or %400. Money comes in. Millions of dollars weekley and people still need to eat food. The Managers alllll get FAT BONUSES. The only people that dont make money are the part time employees which get raped by the unions. SO its not a far stretch to tell the employees their poor and pay them crap. When in fact a manager makes $50,000 - $100,000 a year and the District managers and the CEOs probably make $250,000 or $500,000 a year.

The fact is that Managment does little to help in most industries except paintball and they make all the money.

So rather than point the finger at all of us. Point it at your boss.

[RiddalinJunkie08]

Originally posted by AngelBoy


That kid didnt just get sued for making a search engine, he was just one of the first that got sued for the illegal MP3s he had. And $12,000 would be considered a very low amount compared to some of the others that are in the millions.

but that $12,000 was all he had. I understand that he was taking a risk, but that was all the money he had.
just my 2 cents
-mark-

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
hmm how is it not stealing? explain it to me. since when is taking a product without paying for it not stealing? the fact is the music industry is just like every other industry they try to make a profit yet when it comes to music omg i cant believe that they want to make money how rude i guess ill just steal it.


the same applies to downloading programs such as photoshop its still illegal so dont try and say it isnt.

Why don't you read the laws on theft and then read the laws on copyright violation and get back to us?

Let me break it down for you.

THEFT: Walking into a store, finding a video of super bowl 20. Grabbing it and running out.

COPYRIGHT VIOLATION: Recording the game on your VCR, and watching it at a party later. Or recording an episode of the simpsons and making a copy of it for a friend who missed the episode.


The fact is the music industry ISN'T the same as other industries. They use illegal pricing schemes. After you're done reading about the applicable laws, pick up a book on price fixing and monopolies.

[FutureMagOwner]

i know its not under the same laws for obvious reason but like it has been said its stealing thoughts and ideas which does fall under copyright laws.

"COPYRIGHT VIOLATION: Recording the game on your VCR, and watching it at a party later. Or recording an episode of the simpsons and making a copy of it for a friend who missed the episode."


also if i recall thats not a violation but taping it and selling it is where it becomes a violation in that particular case with televised events)

[ShooterJM]

Nope. Under the Fair use clause archives can only be made for personal use.

However, in the first example the game is being rebroadcast without express written consent of the NFL to a group of people. And in the second example there is unauthorized duplication and distribution.

Profit or charging for copies is irrelevent.

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
Nope. Under the Fair use clause archives can only be made for personal use.

However, in the first example the game is being rebroadcast without express written consent of the NFL to a group of people. And in the second example there is unauthorized duplication and distribution.

Profit or charging for copies is irrelevent.

ok i wasnt sure on that because of the redistibution thing they say during the televised event it sounded like it only applied if you tried to make money or use it to take away money from the nfl or otherwise.

[ShooterJM]

nah, it's pretty complex. Like you can broadcast quotations and stuff or copies for classroom teaching, but you're only allowed to keep the copy for 45 days. Lots of weird little quirks.

[FutureMagOwner]

yeah i knew it was very complex but o well.


yeah i think you guys are just misintrepting what i was saying when i said stealing i wasnt refering legally but more of what the act is basically.

[ShooterJM]

No, I know what you're saying I just don't agree with it.

See the music industry is trying to say that music is both a tangible object AND a copyright.

If you buy a CD they view it as buying a tangible object, but not "really' purchasing a usage license. If you download an MP3, they view you as violating copyright usage.

HOWEVER, if the physical CD you purchased is destroyed, they refuse to allow you to get another one free or download the MP3's that you are legally entitled to. They require you to purchase yet another license. That is my problem. They get to pick one, not both. You're either selling a product or copyright usage, not both. Same thing with the movie industry.

[InfinatyBPS]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
hmm how is it not stealing? explain it to me. since when is taking a product without paying for it not stealing? the fact is the music industry is just like every other industry they try to make a profit yet when it comes to music omg i cant believe that they want to make money how rude i guess ill just steal it.


the same applies to downloading programs such as photoshop its still illegal so dont try and say it isnt.

The only time I feel stealing is bad is when someone is going to feel the effects, I can honestly say that nobody will ever feel the effects of my downloading because I wouldn't have bought 99% of the stuff I downloaded. So what are they losing from my downloading? Nothing. There is no actual solid object that I'm "stealing", so there is no loss for them. If I download photoshop(which you know most people have, 90% of the people on here didn't pay nearly $1000 for PS)what are they losing? I would have never bought it, they aren't losing anything from me... So I don't think its theft. Its like saying growing your own fruit and vegitables is like stealing from the store, and they are going to go out of buissiness for it

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
HOWEVER, if the physical CD you purchased is destroyed, they refuse to allow you to get another one free or download the MP3's that you are legally entitled to. They require you to purchase yet another license. That is my problem. They get to pick one, not both. You're either selling a product or copyright usage, not both. Same thing with the movie industry.

im refering to the people who never bought the cd in the first place and just download it.


thats the thing with a downloading service you can download the same song as many times as you want and only pay once.


also growing plants is something else you cant copyright nature for one thing


i do agree with you guys in partiality but when its people that can easily purchase a cd but are just trying to save a buck is the people i have a problem with.

what i was seeing with myself is that i had every sublime song and tool song downloaded so i went out and bought the cds anyways because i like them enough. i still download things like rage against the machine cds and if there are enough songs on a cd that i like ill go out and by the cd. i also have songs where i would only listen to 2 songs at the most so i never buy the cd(i would use a downloading service if there was a good service) but what i have a problem with is people who download all of linkin park cds or blink 182(just an example of a preppy like my brother) and will never buy the cd(well now that i think about i hope linkin park and blink 182 die so i wouldnt mind if they didnt lol)

[Bloencustoms]

After reading this thread in it's entirety, here are my thoughts. I have never downloaded music, or movies. I haven't bought a CD in over a year. The price is the main thing that stops me. I understand that when any industry suffers, the "emloyees" are the ones to take the hit. Belive me, I'm an employee myself. I definitely think that everyone is entitled to make a profit from their chosen business. I also think that a lot of people (not just celebrities) get paid disproportionately large salaries for the work they do. Take a surgeon, for example. They make a lot of money for what they do. The usual argument is "They spent years in school and are responsible for people's lives". Well, if they kill someone, insurance pays for it. An auto mechanic makes way less than a surgeon, and might not have spent years in college, but their knowledge in their field of expertise is no less extensive, and a faulty car repair could just as easily result in death. A mechanic might not be able to stitch a wound, but a surgeon is not likely to be able to replace a head gasket. People are not paid fairly.

That said, I'd like to address the radio issue. Someone said earlier that the recordings from FM radio were of poor quality. That's true, due to the media available at the time. Radio stations aren't playing tapes and records anymore, and you could just as easily record songs from the radio onto CD. And it won't degrade like copies of copies of tapes will. I also believe that any music played over the radio is already free. I've already listened to it. You aren't selling me anything I can't get by turning on the radio.
So the question is, why do people still buy CD's at all? Perhaps the fancy package has something to do with it. As far as packing and distributing, blank CD's are packed and distributed with jewel cases and labels for much less than $20 each. The media itself is cheap. When the music industry's bigwigs can decide that it's ok for them to make a little less money for all of their "hard work" (Hobnobbing at swanky parties), and drop the price of recorded music, people will buy more of it. Ten people buying a song at $1 yields the same profit as twenty people buying it at 50 cents.

As for online music purchasing, how many people would pay a monthly fee of say $30, and download all the music they want? If all the people who are downloading now bought one or two cd's a month, it would come pretty close. A survey would be needed to find out how much money people spend per month on music, and work it from there.
One of the issues mentioned was the closure of record stores. Online music purchases will do them in anyway, be it downloads, or CD's shipped in the mail.

Just a few thoughts from someone "getting by" watching other people get rich.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Bloencustoms
People are not paid fairly.

A quick note on this. Another reason is out of say 1000 people, there will only be maybe 10 people who have the intelligence and ability to be a surgeon. There's probably 800 or so who can learn to be a mechanic or a janitor or something. It's a question of supply and demand.

[845]

When good paint is down to $20 a case I will be able to afford CDs.