A serious question

[Willystyle21]

How many of you believe in the old saying " The ends justify the means". I was listening to a song today and even though I have thought of this many times before, my opinion is that yeah sometimes they do. What does everybody think? Case in point (and no I don't mean go off on what I am saying here either, I'm just using it as something to go off of) I believe Pres. Bush using whatever info he had at the time (whatever it was truth, falacy, or just plain bad info), I believe he did a good thing by gettin Saddam out of power in Iraq.

[ERut]

Depends on the situation, in the case of Iraq, I think the end did justify the means.

[MiniMag84]

Our situation in Iraq is far from over, my friends. I'd wait on that one.

Personally, I don't think the end justified the means at all there.

[DJBacon06]

what song was it??...just curious

[Collegeboy]

I will refrain from talking about Iraq and just answer your question.

I believe in a little spin off of Machiavelli.

The end always justifies the means as long as you reach the end, but if you don't, then the end never justifies the means.

[1stdeadeye]

Life is not black or white. It is mostly grey. Your question falls into that grey area.

For example:

Is it okay to murder Hitler as a child to avoid WWII and his murderous rule? I would say yes.

but

Is it okay to break Starbase CGI's fingers so he can't post anymore and save AO's collective sanity? Probably not! (or is it? )

[Demobilized]

I think it certainly was. Bush decided to take action and the end of the whole deal is that a deadly and powerful leader is out of power. If that is ALL that comes from this war then I will be happy. Everything else is just icing on the cake for me, but we won't get into that here.

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Is it okay to break Starbase CGI's fingers so he can't post anymore and save AO's collective sanity? Probably not! (or is it? )

*puts away his hammer and sighs*

[sps16]

more bad things would have come our way if we backed down against iraq

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-


*puts away his hammer and sighs*

LOL!

[ERut]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
The end always justifies the means as long as you reach the end, but if you don't, then the end never justifies the means.

I disagree. I think the answer varies with the situation. I do buy into the theory of proportional consequentialism, which is basically about choosing the lesser of two evils.

For example: was it ok to drop the A bomb on Japan during WWII, killing around 100,000 people instantly, if it prevented an invasion of Japan in which ten times that many soldiers would be killed? I'd say yeah.

[Collegeboy]

You can always once you have accomplished your goal, shape the ideas of the populace on what you have accompished from it.

A good book that deals with somthing similar to the idea above is "Soul of Battle" by Victor David Hanson.

[Jack_Dubious]

"Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong." -Adolph Hitler


JDub

[nastymag]

i hate that saying with all my heart.
talking about " the ends justify the means"

its a phrase used by people to justify the horrilbe things they did to achieve what they wanted.

[Albinonewt]

THe ends justifying the means is definitly a grey area. Is it ok to murder every person affected with HIV in order to prevent the spread? I don't think so. Is it ok to perform tests on willing subjects that may cause them undue suffering order to cure the disease, I think it is.

In that example we have two different means but the same end, and I'm not willing to call both justified.

As for Iraq, I think Bush was justified in saying what he did. The British stood by their statement and continue to do so. I don't know what British intelligence knows, and I don't think CNN can claim to know either. The single report that our CIA had that discredited the claim that Saddam had purchased yellow cake uranium from Niger does not a false claim make. It merely means that one source was incorrect. I think it was a mistake by the Bush adminstration to give the story legs by apologizing and having everyone run around scared of it. I would have just said "British intelligence is convinced, and that's enough to convince me" Done, end of story.