Those crazy French and Germans!!

[Albinonewt]

As many of you probably know President Bush is submitting a proposal to the UN to include more multi-national forces for Iraq. He has his reasons for it and I'll say I don't like the idea of it, but that's not the point.

The point is Chirac and Schroeder both immediatly said they don't like the proposal and it didn't go far enough. When asked what they didn't like they both conceded that they hadn't seen it yet. Yet, they are certain that they don't like it and that it doesn't go far enough.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Collegeboy]

Re: Those crazy French and Germans!!

Originally posted by Albinonewt
As many of you probably know President Bush is submitting a proposal to the UN to include more multi-national forces for Iraq. He has his reasons for it and I'll say I don't like the idea of it, but that's not the point.

The point is Chirac and Schroeder both immediatly said they don't like the proposal and it didn't go far enough. When asked what they didn't like they both conceded that they hadn't seen it yet. Yet, they are certain that they don't like it and that it doesn't go far enough.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

They know what it is about, it is hard not to. They might not know enough to go on the record and comment about it, but they know enough to know that it doesn't go far enough.

German CAN NOT send troops, and France disagrees with the war (hate to say, so far they have been correct)

[Albinonewt]

Re: Re: Those crazy French and Germans!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy


They know what it is about, it is hard not to. They might not know enough to go on the record and comment about it, but they know enough to know that it doesn't go far enough.

Oh come on, they haven't seen the proposal and they complain about it. That's how you know that someone has absolutly no desire to go to the table, compromise, or anything else, that they don't even listen before they respond. It's absurd.

"Well, I haven't seen it yet, but I don't like and will never agree to it"

The French and Germans are being pretty self important, and pretty stupid frankly. They want in on the reconstruction and there is no end to them complaining about not being involved and then they refuse to even read the piece of paper that would get them involved. They are acting like children.

German CAN NOT send troops, and France disagrees with the war (hate to say, so far they have been correct)

Germany could send peace keepers. That much Schroeder could get away with, as he was elected to keep Germany out of the war, and this isn't the war. France disagreed with the war because America was for it.

And when you say they were right, how do you figure? Saddam was completely evil, in every way. The mass graves, oppression, and tales of evil are enough to justify the war without the national interests (which I must say, are significant).

Plus, it didn't hurt that Saddam was buying French equipment at three times the going rate. Saddam sure was bright when it came to that. They'd purchase a T-72 for the same price an M1A1 goes for, which kept the Russians Loyal.

Russia is another story though, talk about a short sighted foreign policy approach.

[beam]

Sounds like it could have been stripped straight from a Monty Python script.

[-Carnifex-]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH

I'm a mindless hawk who lives for the president

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH


Edit: I really need to stop reading these threads.

[Collegeboy]

Re: Re: Re: Those crazy French and Germans!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Albinonewt

Originally posted by Collegeboy


They know what it is about, it is hard not to. They might not know enough to go on the record and comment about it, but they know enough to know that it doesn't go far enough.

Oh come on, they haven't seen the proposal and they complain about it. That's how you know that someone has absolutly no desire to go to the table, compromise, or anything else, that they don't even listen before they respond. It's absurd.

Compromise, did the US compromise when it invaded a foreign country. They have seen enough of it, they haven't seen the final official copy, but they know the direction it is going, and they know that it is not doing enough. Even US news sources say that it is not doing enough, and they haven't received a copy.

"Well, I haven't seen it yet, but I don't like and will never agree to it"

The French and Germans are being pretty self important, and pretty stupid frankly. They want in on the reconstruction and there is no end to them complaining about not being involved and then they refuse to even read the piece of paper that would get them involved. They are acting like children.

No I think you and people who think like you are acting like children. There is no end to your complaining about them even when they have been proven right

German CAN NOT send troops, and France disagrees with the war (hate to say, so far they have been correct)

Germany could send peace keepers. That much Schroeder could get away with, as he was elected to keep Germany out of the war, and this isn't the war. France disagreed with the war because America was for it.

According the German constitution the German government can not send troops to a foreign land to wage any war or any peace time effort unless directed to by NATO.

And when you say they were right, how do you figure? Saddam was completely evil, in every way. The mass graves, oppression, and tales of evil are enough to justify the war without the national interests (which I must say, are significant).



Plus, it didn't hurt that Saddam was buying French equipment at three times the going rate. Saddam sure was bright when it came to that. They'd purchase a T-72 for the same price an M1A1 goes for, which kept the Russians Loyal.

Russia is another story though, talk about a short sighted foreign policy approach.

If you have not noticed it by now, the cold war is still going on, instead of nukes we are using capitalism to wage battles. Russia was on the way to put a nuclear power plant in Iran, and was planning to pay Afghanistan for a pipeline. But now the US practically owns Afghanistan, has an approved pipeline, and is going to build a power plant in Iraq.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH

I'm a mindless hawk who lives for the president

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH


Edit: I really need to stop reading these threads.

I love that kind of retort Carn, really. You believe one thing, and I beleive another, and that makes me mindless?

I more or less beleive the same things as my party, not because my party believes them, but because that's what I think. I joined the party because they think similiarly to me.

Plus, it's funny how I can disagree with Bush in my post and your retort is to tell me I blindly follow him. Huh?

[Albinonewt]

Learn to use a quote button

The French and Germans had a very poor plan going into this whole thing. I never understood what their final goal was because they didn't appear to have one. They simply sat at the table and said "no" before anyone had even said anything. It was them who removed options from the table and refused to consider them. The US on the other hand played the diplo game, did the inspections that everyone asked for, and only after that failed did we move. The French solution was what? As near as I can tell they just wanted more time, and more time, and more time. But at what point was more time enough? The Americans had a set criteria for end game, and upon satifying that criteria they were done. The French had no such thing, and it was pretty weird.

No, Bush is trying to do exactly what the UN is asking him to do, to include them. And France and Germany is saying no before even knowing what's going on. It's so stupid, because they could have what they want (or a semblance of it) if they would go to the table and behave like adults. but they don't want to do that, they just sit and complain.

And so what if the AMerican media, without reading the proposal, thinks it's not enough. They've been against the war from the beginning, just like France.

And Russia has the worst foreign policy ever, and it's very bizarre. All the Russians do is sell weapons to the people that are trying to destroy them. There's a lot to delve into on that topic, so I'm skipping it from now, but I doubt you'll let that pass.

[1stdeadeye]

Hey Albinonewt,
If you think Starbase CGI is tough, COllegeboy is the champ of being difficult. On his behalf though, I will say that he will at least never respond with Fuzzy Pink Mokey Slippers!

He will however give you his demented version of world events and history!

He makes a hippie look like Judge Bork!

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Hey Albinonewt,
If you think Starbase CGI is tough, COllegeboy is the champ of being difficult. On his behalf though, I will say that he will at least never respond with Fuzzy Pink Mokey Slippers!

He will however give you his demented version of world events and history!

He makes a hippie look like Judge Bork!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Albinonewt]

As for the weapons of mass destruction, I suspect that we have a lot of evidence and are holding it until we're done collecting it. I hear all the time that Bush is just sitting on it, waiting for the right moment.

I think because Bush is so good at campaigning he's waiting until the democratic primaries are over. If he announced too early he'll undercut Dean, and Bush wants to run against Dean. Lieberman would be a much tougher opponent, so Bush will keep Lieberman crippeled for his support of the war. Once the primary is over he's free to go crazy and let everyone know what we found.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Learn to use a quote button

I do think that is what I am using.

The French and Germans had a very poor plan going into this whole thing. I never understood what their final goal was because they didn't appear to have one. They simply sat at the table and said "no" before anyone had even said anything. It was them who removed options from the table and refused to consider them. The US on the other hand played the diplo game, did the inspections that everyone asked for, and only after that failed did we move. The French solution was what? As near as I can tell they just wanted more time, and more time, and more time. But at what point was more time enough? The Americans had a set criteria for end game, and upon satifying that criteria they were done. The French had no such thing, and it was pretty weird.

The US did not do the diplomatic thing. Ask just about any diplomat and they will say they were not given the chance to use their skills to work out an agreement with the UN. The US had the idea that they are going to invade, France, German, and Russia, said no before we do so will we have to find WMD through weapon inspectors. The US gave them a month and didn't find anything, now they have had over 4 months and haven't found anything. So to me the logical conclusion would be the US was the stubborn pig headed part of this

No, Bush is trying to do exactly what the UN is asking him to do, to include them. And France and Germany is saying no before even knowing what's going on. It's so stupid, because they could have what they want (or a semblance of it) if they would go to the table and behave like adults. but they don't want to do that, they just sit and complain.

They are not saying no, read again what they are saying

And so what if the AMerican media, without reading the proposal, thinks it's not enough. They've been against the war from the beginning, just like France.

Let me guess a vast left wing conspiracy to shape the minds of the populace . The media has been middle of the road covering the war. What makes you against the war. Showing both sides.

And Russia has the worst foreign policy ever, and it's very bizarre. All the Russians do is sell weapons to the people that are trying to destroy them. There's a lot to delve into on that topic, so I'm skipping it from now, but I doubt you'll let that pass.

I thought you were talking about US foreign policy in the first part. For that is basically what we have been doing for the past 50 years and continue to do today.

[Albinonewt]

You still don't seem to know how to work the quote button

The US wanted him to disarm and prove it. He refused. The UN issued a resolution that promised consequences if he didn't comply. He didn't. There were consequences. That, and he was violating a cease fire agreement. And we spent close a year talking it out before the invasion. The diplomats had all the time they needed, because there wasn't going to be a diplomatic resolution. Saddam didn't want one and he wasn't going to allow us to talk him down. The lefties never seem to understand that.

Well they did soften their stance today, which is smarter. But, yesterday they just flat out said no and that they hadn't read it.

No, it's not a conspiracy. Simply put most of the media was against the war. That stood out in their coverage and in what they said. It doesn't make them conspirators or bad people, it's just the way things are.

But Russia is really stupid about it. We tend to support a nation or group to do our fighting for us (Iraq vs. Iran) and then have it sometimes backfire. Russia sells weapons to the people that sell weapons to the Chechnians. Just completely stupid.

[Albinonewt]

And about the WMD

I really think we have stuff that we're holding onto. I can remember dozens of reports about things we found that may or may not be illegal weapons, but I really don't remember a lot of follow up stories. I really think we have a rack of evidence that we've been compiling and will unleash in the near future.

I could be wrong, but we'll see soon enough.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
You still don't seem to know how to work the quote button

The US wanted him to disarm and prove it. He refused. The UN issued a resolution that promised consequences if he didn't comply. He didn't. There were consequences. That, and he was violating a cease fire agreement. And we spent close a year talking it out before the invasion. The diplomats had all the time they needed, because there wasn't going to be a diplomatic resolution. Saddam didn't want one and he wasn't going to allow us to talk him down. The lefties never seem to understand that.

I guess not finding any of the weapons that the US said he had isn't disarming.

Well they did soften their stance today, which is smarter. But, yesterday they just flat out said no and that they hadn't read it.

Dude listen. They know what it is going to be about for the US has been saying this crap for 2 plus weeks now. They do not have the final copy in their hands, which means they can not make an official statement. I think your hatred is getting in the way of common sense.

No, it's not a conspiracy. Simply put most of the media was against the war. That stood out in their coverage and in what they said. It doesn't make them conspirators or bad people, it's just the way things are.

I don't remember the media picking a side, I remember them showing it pretty straight forward. Could it be you seeing things into something that isn't there.

But Russia is really stupid about it. We tend to support a nation or group to do our fighting for us (Iraq vs. Iran) and then have it sometimes backfire. Russia sells weapons to the people that sell weapons to the Chechnians. Just completely stupid.

What is more stupid doing what Russia is doing, or arming Bin Laden so that he can eventually knock down the twin towers. Or providing Iraq with training with gas, so they can kill millions of their people. Or providing South American dictators guns so they can kill thousands of their people.