Michael Moore is being sued!

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
What are the advantages of such a plan?

If you have to ask then you won't understand.

But, I guess I'll answer anyways, so you can stick your head in the sand and reply with the mantra.

An armed society is a very powerful deterrent for any criminal. It ups the risk factor for any person on person crime to such a level that your run of the mill mugger will think twice before attacking someone, robbing a liquer store, or carjacking someone. It will typically not prevent person on property crimes (such as burglary), but nothing's perfect.

Now, what do I mean by an armed society? Do I mean everyone in the country is packing a Glock .40 with 6 clips of jacketed soft point? No, I don't. What I mean is there must be a credible threat to the attacker that there is a gun nearby that will likely be pointing at him should he try anything. If you look at crime stats now they are typically higher in places where gun laws are the strictest. Washington DC for example does not allow private citizens to carry hand guns and as a result their murder rate is the highest. A criminal (who has a gun illegally already, so he doesn't care about the ban) fears nobody in DC because he knows that nobody is shooting back. If that ban were to be lifted and everyone was permitted to carry a gun in the city you'd see the murder rates start to fall, probably almost overnight. Once there is a credible threat of danger to these criminals they start to go somewhere else. If on the national level there was a threat every where then you'd see the murder rate drop significantly.

Now, as for all this nonsense about if we had an armed society every person would shoot every other person and we'd all be dead in a week. Grow up. Owning a gun doesn't make you a psychotic killer that just shoots the clerk at K-Mart because he ran out of the bonus packs of energizer AAA batteries. Guns do not take away our humanity, and certainly not the level that people are suggesting when they say there would be chaos.

There would be accidents and mistakes for sure, until society as a whole got used to the idea. Does anyone know how many "incidents" there were with automobiles when they first got going? The answer is alot, because people just were not used to them in any sense. But that's the kind of thing that society as a whole has to adjust to.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by MicrOMag
Correction;

a mockamentary, totally different genrea

If that's the case then why did he accept the Academy Award for documentary film?

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by tony emerson
What do you think Moore would think of a bunch of people running through the woods with paintball guns?

It depends. He'd ask us if we thought Bush was a fraud, and if we dared say no he'd make a movie about how Paintball leads to the deaths of thousands and crusade aaginst us for the rest of his life.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
The shear fact that one can possibly receive a gun as an incentive to investment is what Moore was showing as a means to say how much guns are in trenched in our culture.

He showed the steps needed to get one, he showed the background check, he showed the investment needed etc..

LIES

He showed none of that in his movie. If he had it wouldn't have been biased. He showed only the side he wanted to, a man handing him a gun in a bank, implying that it was somehow dangereous and that if the person getting the gun wasn't the esteemed Michael Moore then something bad could happen.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-
I think the point was to elaborate on how much America and guns go together. When I think "Bank" I don't think "Gives out Rifles with accounts."

And why not?

Banks (and frankly every business on this earth) can run specials to drum up their business and compete with other businesses. In this case they decided a long arm would be a gun incentive for people to come to their bank. Nothing strange about that.

[Collegeboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Albinonewt

Originally posted by Collegeboy
The shear fact that one can possibly receive a gun as an incentive to investment is what Moore was showing as a means to say how much guns are in trenched in our culture.

He showed the steps needed to get one, he showed the background check, he showed the investment needed etc..

LIES

He showed none of that in his movie. If he had it wouldn't have been biased. He showed only the side he wanted to, a man handing him a gun in a bank, implying that it was somehow dangereous and that if the person getting the gun wasn't the esteemed Michael Moore then something bad could happen.

Did you see the movie, or just previews. For in the previews it shows him walking out of the bank, in the movie it shows him in the bank having to make the 1000 dollar investment, having to go through a back ground check, etc. This could explain a lot of your emotions on this film, for it seems like you haven't even seen it.

As to your armored society comment.

I didn't say guns will turn you into a psychopathic killer, again read what I said.

What gives you the impression that guns are the direct result or lack there of, of higher crime in Washington D.C.?

[-Carnifex-]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


And why not?

Banks (and frankly every business on this earth) can run specials to drum up their business and compete with other businesses. In this case they decided a long arm would be a gun incentive for people to come to their bank. Nothing strange about that.

A bank giving out instruments of war seems a bit odd to me.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
LIES

He showed none of that in his movie. If he had it wouldn't have been biased. He showed only the side he wanted to, a man handing him a gun in a bank, implying that it was somehow dangereous and that if the person getting the gun wasn't the esteemed Michael Moore then something bad could happen.

What movie did you see? He showed the background check. They showed him waiting while the paper work was filled out. He didn't present the midwestern bank employees as morons or pschopaths. He was just making a point that our culture is entertwined with guns. I think your own strong emotions on the issue are twisting it in your mind.

Now as for the rest of it you certainly have some grounds. There is no doubt that he ambushed Dick Clark, K-mart, and Charlton Heston but the bank scene happened exactly as CB presented. I did feel sorry for the K-mart representative. She was served up a public relations nightmare and the corporate mouth for "the evil empire" even though the real reasons for Colombine had little to do with K-mart.

While we are on the subject I'm sure you guys agree that those two teenagers SHOULD NOT have had that easy access to those firearms (high powered semi automatic pistols). Do you feel that some fault lay with those that provided those weapons? Lets say you leave your pistol on your bed and your 10 year old accidently shoots a neighbor boy. Are you criminally negligent? If you were I'm sure people would do a better job storing the stuff safely.

[Army]

I'm not getting into the argument here (MM is a liar extraordinaire by any measure), I just want to clarify one thing:

Aircraft hulls are not so fragile as to explode from a tiny bullet hole. There is an air pump, that is keeping the cabin pressure at about 8lbs above the outside pressure. Obviously, 8lbs isn't going to be catastrophic by any means.

The pump will continue to make 8lbs of pressure, EVEN WITH A CABIN WINDOW OUT. This same pump will also supply air to the emergency breathing apparatus, unless all power is lost, then back up tanks will kick in.

You can empty magazine after magazine through the walls and hull, the plane will remain intact.

...and no, a person will NOT be sucked out a bullet hole, that is total Hollywood derived myth.

[aaron_mag]

Hmmmm. That is pretty interesting information!!! I had always subscribed to the cabin decompression/mass catastrophy thing. Since I fly alot this is good to know!!!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Army

...and no, a person will NOT be sucked out a bullet hole, that is total Hollywood derived myth.

Well there goes my plan to do in Collegeboy!

Darn it what should I do now?

As for the DC thing, I am from that area. CB, criminals show no fear when there is no chance of the citizen firing back. Look at the Florida crime statistics both pre and post right to carry. THEY WENT DOWN!!! The only crime that went up was against tourists, again because they were not armed.

[Miscue]

"Elephant" I think is a better account. I'll go see it when I can.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Did you see the movie, or just previews. For in the previews it shows him walking out of the bank, in the movie it shows him in the bank having to make the 1000 dollar investment, having to go through a back ground check, etc. This could explain a lot of your emotions on this film, for it seems like you haven't even seen it.

Yeah, I saw it, and it was a one sided slander that covered only what Moore wanted us to see and it completely distorted the reality. Period.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
As to your armored society comment.

I didn't say guns will turn you into a psychopathic killer, again read what I said.

As always, I did read what you said. And as always, you did say what I accused you of. Remember these choice words?

Originally posted by Collegeboy
If everyone carried a gun on them at all times imagine how fast everyone would die. Could you imagine walking down a street and accidentally bumping into someone and he turns around and shoots you instead of the customary hit you would normally receive form someone in this state of mind.

You seemed pretty sure that we'd all die because of the pshycopathic behavior we'd all exhibit if we all had guns.

To all the people that think allowing people to carry guns is going to get us all killed allow me to showcase exhibit A. ME I think we can all agree I'm about as ill tempered as a person gets. I'm also somewhat unstable. Yet I've managed to own guns for TEN YEARS and I've yet to shoot a single person. I've pulled a gun a time or two, but never, NOT ONCE shot a person. (and the times I pulled a gun were all in self defense against a person with an illegal gun that pulled it on me).

Originally posted by Collegeboy
What gives you the impression that guns are the direct result or lack there of, of higher crime in Washington D.C.?

Because there are no legal hand guns and as a result the people in that town are easy prey to their attackers and the attackers know it. So long as allowing the citizens to arm themselves is ruled out we'll never know if it would solve the problem. But I'm betting all my chips that the rates lower and quickly once the attackers know there's no more free lunch.

Frankly, it should be simple enough to figure it out. At the very least the lack of legal guns isn't keeping the murder rate down, so why not allow the citizens to carry guns? They're defenseless now and the illegal attackers are not. Maybe it's time to try and balance out the equation a little.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-
A bank giving out instruments of war seems a bit odd to me.

So?

I think it's weird for a magazine company (a company that has a profound interest in your literacy) to give out free colanders with half naked girls and video tapes, two things that don't require reading.

So it's a little different. That's probably why it worked.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
While we are on the subject I'm sure you guys agree that those two teenagers SHOULD NOT have had that easy access to those firearms (high powered semi automatic pistols). Do you feel that some fault lay with those that provided those weapons? Lets say you leave your pistol on your bed and your 10 year old accidently shoots a neighbor boy. Are you criminally negligent? If you were I'm sure people would do a better job storing the stuff safely.

Those two paticular teen agers shouldn't have had access to the guns. But that doesn't mean that every shouldn't have. The parents who owned the guns had a responsibility for their weapons, and they failed. Miserably.