Iraqi Civillian Body Count

[-Carnifex-]

Can anyone show me a reliable article or something that tells the civillian body count so far from the war? All of the ones I found were something like 7,000 - 10,000 which seems bogus.

[Restola]

I heard a much much higher number, but I think it included iraqi soldiers killed also.

Oh I think this is cute too:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

They claim 7,878-9,708 iraqi civilians have been killed, and they don't even try to appear unbiased. So I would guess it's somewhere lower than that.

I...must...make...political...point...

Wonder where they were during Saddam's rule...

There. I said it

[-Carnifex-]

Yeah, I saw that too.

[steveg]

I resently met an Iraqi living here in Canada He in turn
asked were the US was 30 years ago If they cared so much.

Then he mentioned something about George Bush Sr helping to
Put Saddam into power in the first place.


(this should be interesting to watch )

P.S. I must add that this gentleman was most definatly not
a Saddam supporter and is glad that he is finally gone.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by steveg
.Then he mentioned something about George Bush Sr helping to
Put Saddam into power in the first place.

Whilst that would be a nice and neat solution and yes Bush snr came to power in the same year. It was already in motion for Saddam to be where he ended up http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/1100529.stm

Not getting into a political debate though rather difficult given the subject matter but America doesn't effect the world in quite the way some of you think....that would be too much like the x-files. A lot of former guerrilla fighters have been supported by many countries who have then regretted the support they gave. Many arms deals sanctioned by goverments have come back to haunt them.
It would be also too easy to say that these sort of things only seem to happen in "backward" countries who the hell are we to say what is backward or not. Govermental policy is for the home market first and outside it is a trading partner looking to reinforce its home market...when things don't go the way they (the goverments) want then they start to shout. The Balkans conflict was an accident waiting to happen but for all it's shortfalls the Soviet influence kept it in check.
Iraq in its current form (prior to the war) was created by the Turks and ammended by the French and British following the First World War and a puppet King installed..all in the name of commerce (read oil), several tribal societys ruled by a tribal leader who was a traditional enemy of those same people (and was a member of a minority tribe at that). So an Iraqi revolt was going to happen, just no-one ever thought that someone like Saddam would eventually rise to power.

edited: As I got my World Wars muddles up :o

[Vendetta]

Didn't Bush I run the CIA? That claim that he put Saddam in power is not that hard to belive.

[steveg]

Yes, Vendetta according to my Iraqi friend it was during
Sr's CIA years

Mark that is a time period somewhat before his he was president

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Central-Intelligence-Agency

[MarkM]

Ok but Saddam was in ascendency for some time prior to CIA involvement (if any, 'cos they ain't gonna tell you, are they ) I may be "out" a little as far as who was in power when (you by default are now saying that is was Reagan who put Saddam in power as the CIA are supposed to be under presidential supervison) but did you read the rest of my post...Bush Snr was small beer compared to what was going to happen anyway.

[steveg]

yes I did mark the story in Iraq goes that the CIA trained Saddam and Co (most effectively I might add) in
the skills needed to overthrow governments and take over countries

On a more personal note, I had a neighbour (retired american) while living in Toronto.

He was in the middle east involved with oil production in
the late 40s and early fifties, so there were definally
U.S involement in the gulf states while Saddam was emerging.