Academic Dishonesty

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by 845
Mrs. Crabapple he looked at my test!

Its like the neighbor that calls the cops on you for everything.

No, we're talking about catching a guy who is COPYING off of you. basically stealing your work. and unlike the neighbor who is butting in where he isn't wanted, it's the person looking at the other guy's test who is sticking his nose where it shouldn't be. It's like breaking and entering, almost.

[Marek]

Originally posted by RobAGD
As for needing to do 3hrsa of home work a night So what ? Get off your *** and turn off the idiot box and stop reading forums until your work is done. I have a lot of kids that work for me and they have BLOCK classes where they get a good bit of home work for each class but the have a few days to do it. If you have good study habit you can get it done in no time. But lamers that have managed to cheat there way through lower levels of school start to flounder in high school because they DONT have those study habits to make it.

Part of it is the fault of the teachers and lots of it is to be blamed on a rather corrupt morals of people these days.

I'm curious about the bold phrase. What do you mean by that? I'm not sure I follow what you mean by that.

[Sir_Brass]

Agreed. Don't you ever blame the cheating on the teachers! Both my parents are retired public high school teachers, and though they loved teaching (still do, b/c they now sub to supliment their retirement pay . . . which isn't all that much, really), they HATED the bs that went along with it (that they don't get when they substitute teach), like statements by morally corrupt PARENTS when they blame the teachers b/c they were failing the kid (b/c the kid did nothing in class, and turned in nothing, or was such a disruption that the kid was almost always sent out of the room), that kind of bs is the reason they took early retirement. They did NOT contribute to cheating, not one bit. THey tried to be fair in their tests and tried to teach the material well, and they probably did a good job at those things as well. If some of their students cheated on tests, then it is the morals of the STUDENT, not the morals of the teacher that are at fault.

When a student cheats, the blame should be laid directly at the source: the student himself. No one else is to blame.

[FactsOfLife]

Brass, just as a what if...

if the punk is cheating, gets caught and the teacher does nothing, then who's to blame?

Does the teacher then share some culpability for the actions?

Wouldn't the kids get the idea that it's OK to cheat?

Seems we have a few in this thread that feel that way.

Shouldn't they all then be caned by some out of work Singapore cops? A-la Michael Fay?


Oh and for those of you that think being "ratted on" for cheating is worse than the cheating itself, do you have some kind of recessive gene problem? Are you really that stupid to believe that??

[-Carnifex-]

I believe being officious is nearly as bad.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-
I believe being officious is nearly as bad.

kids usually do.

[-Carnifex-]

I still will when I'm an adult.

[FactsOfLife]

I doubt it. It's called growing up.

It is..... unavoidable...(cue maniacal Darth Sidious laughter)

[Army]

Carnifex, picture these scenarios:

Engineering student cheats his way through school, shows good grades on a resume'. Is hired by prestigeous firm, and is assigned to build the worlds greatest bridge. Well, he doesn't KNOW how to build bridges, he only knows how to cheat. His lack of engineering knowledge concludes with a bridge that fails when your Mom and Dad drive across.

Soldier sleeps and goofs off during Combat Lifesaver Medic course. He copies answers from the not so smart guy next to him and gets a barely passing grade, yet receives a Medic bag. YOU get wounded in combat, and scream for a Medic, but only this guy shows up without a clue how to fix your sucking chest wound. You die trying to cuss him out, but you can't because your lungs have collapsed.

You are a back player, the brains of the teams. But your team cheater is caught wiping, and is penalized a two-fer with YOUR armband being pulled too. Lack of direction from the back, and overwhelmed by the straight up players who have NOT been penalized on the other team, your team has just lost the International Cup, with it's full sponsorship and personalized Nike shoe line. Your sponsor sees the wipe, and drops you guys like hot 'taters so as not to be stained with your now crappy reputation. Four GOOD, honest players just got screwed by a cheater.

Need more?

Cheating is lying to not only yourself, but everyone else too.

[-Carnifex-]

I was refering to cheating in academics. I do see your point though.

[Marek]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife
Brass, just as a what if...

if the punk is cheating, gets caught and the teacher does nothing, then who's to blame?

Does the teacher then share some culpability for the actions?

Wouldn't the kids get the idea that it's OK to cheat?

Seems we have a few in this thread that feel that way.

Shouldn't they all then be caned by some out of work Singapore cops? A-la Michael Fay?

But for that to work, the teacher would have to let that happen. Yes, that there might be one teacher in one school that might let it go, but personally, I don't know a single teacher that I work with that would allow cheating. If the kids are even caught with a simple, "do you want to be my boyfriend, yes or no" letter or "hey what make-up are you using" note, harshness will be close behind.

My point was that I fail to see how the teacher is somehow part of the problem in cheating in the classrooms.

[RobAGD]

Marek -

I see and hear a lot of teachers just turning a blind eye to cheating for many reasons. They need a high grade average to be considered "good" teachers.

Teacher union makes it harder to get ride of the bad apples and they inturns spoils more teachers because they dont see actions being taken on the bad teachers so they start turning a blind eye.

I know in my school if you got caught cheating there are a lot of things happened to be punished, If you were on a shool team you were benched for the rest of the quarter, you got After School Study hall ( not actually detention but thats basically what it was )

In some caces you had to RETAKE that quartes test to show that you knew the materials. You also got sorted out in other classes so that the chance of cheating were cut down. When it came test time you were segerated to a chair that was neat no one, and the teacher kept a good eye on you.

That kind of stuff would be shut down so fast now with all the feel good, positive additudes, self image bull crap that goes on in schools now thats just killing the competitive nature that should be strengthen during school not hampered.

Personally I think they need to bring back corpeal punishment, public caning and the likes to get thingsback into order.

Really if you start canning the people that are tagging walls and going general disstructive behavior, I have a good feeling that you will see a big drop in that kind of crime. You have to make the punishment so distastefull that commiting the crime is in no way worth it.

Think about this, if you are convicted of murder, you get 1 and only 1 appeal, when thats done, if it has not been over turned, they take you too a nice white room, pop a cap in your skull and wash your brains down a drain and bill your family for the bullet. Think people would think twice about murder not being able to draw it out for 10-14 years ? Not getting multiable chances of an overturned conviction?

Anyways,

-Robert

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife
Brass, just as a what if...

if the punk is cheating, gets caught and the teacher does nothing, then who's to blame?

Does the teacher then share some culpability for the actions?

Wouldn't the kids get the idea that it's OK to cheat?

Seems we have a few in this thread that feel that way.

Shouldn't they all then be caned by some out of work Singapore cops? A-la Michael Fay?


Oh and for those of you that think being "ratted on" for cheating is worse than the cheating itself, do you have some kind of recessive gene problem? Are you really that stupid to believe that??

If a teacher turns a blind eye to cheating, that teacher should be fired.

And I am completely for corporal punishment. Maybe not caning for cheating, but a good hard, whack on knuckles or wrist to keep you honest . . . absolutely!

[Marek]

Originally posted by RobAGD
Marek -

I see and hear a lot of teachers just turning a blind eye to cheating for many reasons. They need a high grade average to be considered "good" teachers.

Teacher union makes it harder to get ride of the bad apples and they inturns spoils more teachers because they dont see actions being taken on the bad teachers so they start turning a blind eye.

I understand your point, though I think that it is a gross generalization. The pressures from parents, administrators, unions, etc. are overwhelming sometimes, and are definately present in the public school systems. It can lead to such behavior by some teachers, but that is not always the case. Teachers are not only evaluated by their scores in classes, but also in their lessons and materials. The majority of the time, either the material is gauged incorrectly to the class limits, or the teacher is not explaining it the right way. Not to say that the system is perfect, but there are safeguards towards this type of behavior.

I agree that bad apples spoil it for the rest, and it is really hard to get a teacher fired once they are hired and past the probationary period. Like in anything, there are some that are just in it for the paycheck, or the perks of the job. They could care less about what they are doing, but not all. I would argue that the minority do it for that reason. (perks, paycheck) Teaching is a profession that few dare to venture into because it reaps few tangible rewards.

Personally at my school, we are hawks with the kids and make sure that they don't get out of line. It's always hard to keep tabs with 25, 30 kids in the class but you try your best with what you have. If there are no consequences for wrong doing, then nothing will ever be resolved. Not sure about the caning though. Might be a bit much. Now if we could have tasers, now we're talking.

[DaosBeoulve]

Wow.

I was actually quite surprised reading through this thread. Cheating isn't bad for anyone but the cheater? Eh... Ever heard of curves? Cheaters blow those things up badly. And that hurts the ENTIRE class. So just keep thinking about that the only person they're hurting is themselves.

Ya know, I didn't really appreciate our honor code here until I read through this thread. Any of you saying you cheat and everyone does it, etc., would never make it here at Vandy. Those saying not to turn in the cheater wouldn't make it either. Why?

Because, our honor code says that not turning in someone that's cheating is just as bad as cheating yourself. Interesting concept eh? I've known two people that got kicked out because they saw and knew someone was cheating in a class while the professor was paying attention to the whole thing, but they never opened their mouth. Not even when asked about it explicitly.

*shakes head* This world really is on a downward spiral. As others have said, I'd rather fail than cheat.