U.S. Bars War Opponents....

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Then of course the sheep followed the other sheep right off the edge of the cliff into disgrace and humiliation.

I would expect an issuing of a ban or something, but I know that it will not happen. I shall expect an apology, but I know nothing would happen. Some people are not man enough I guess.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
How he got that I was racist from that comment is beyond me. Maybe it was in response from me calling his post irrational and he can not stand it, and wanted to hit me with something stronger. Then of course the sheep followed the other sheep right off the edge of the cliff into disgrace and humiliation.

Baaaaaaaa.

I would expect an issuing of a ban or something, but I know that it will not happen. I shall expect an apology, but I know nothing would happen. Some people are not man enough I guess.

I accept your apology although I know it is insincere!

As for being man enough, we all showed at AO SC 2. It was a ten plus hour drive. We were prepared to debate you in person and you failed to take that short drive to see us.

Yep, you are a man!

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
You guys are beyond all hope.

I'll take that as a compliment from you

The Iraqi people are not suited for democracy.

Racist

They might be suited for democracy when they go through some changes that are required to make democracy work,

Such as convening a governing council and drafting a constitution?

but until then it will just end in a tyrant at the helm of the government.

Just like Saddam won't be captured by next October. Pardon me if I doubt your crystal ball

If that is racist, then everyone in the world is a racist.

Yes it is racist, and no we aren't all racist, because we don't all believe that. You believe it therefore you are the racist. The majority of the world believes the Iraqi people have the right, the will, and the ability to live in a free society that is self governed. To believe that they can't govern simply because they're Iraqi is racist.

This has nothing to do with them being Arab, with them being of a olive skin tone, or anything, it has to do with them not being ready for democracy at this point. They are not suited for democracy.

Oh, ok Mr. "It has nothing to do with anything", then why aren't they suited? You've already said a thousand times it was because of their MUSLIM religions, so how is that not racist?

India is not the same as Iraq. But India rose up to overthrow the British government, which I said should happen in Iraq.

Iraqis should raise arms against the British government? Um, why? Last I checked the Brits aren't running Iraq. You see, the Iraqis get to skip a step. Overthrowing a foreign power is only a needed step when there's a foreign power that refuses to leave. The Iraqis don't have that paticular problem so they don't need to overcome it


The US civil war is not like the world civil wars as is being described, the US revolutionary war was not like other revolutionary wars.

But you said ALL civil wars leaving no room for exceptions. I know the US Civil war was different from the "tyrant shall rise" nonsense you were talking about. It was you who made the assertion.

I did not say one thing only to change it, I am saying the exact same thing then as I am now, if you can not see that, i am sorry that you like to read more into it then is there.

You said that they can't rule because of their Muslim religion, and now you're saying you aren't racist. Those two statement are completely contradictory. You are changing what you wrote.


I love how people can throw around a name like racist so easily and how people afraid of being called it themselves automatically support him.

Ok, CB. What have I done to be called a racist? I don't think people are inferrior because they're Muslim. I don't think they deserve to be ruled in Tyranny because of their religion and ethnicity. You do, because you are a racist. I love how the "tolerant" side (the left) goes on believing that only us righties can be racist but they themelves can't be. You guys really think that the definition of racism is defined in the dictionary thusly

Racism: Any thought a conservative person has about a minority that is deemed bad by liberals.

Grow up people and learn, everything is not like you have it, why don’t you step out in that “real” world that you claim is so great one time.

Grow up? Whatever you say racist. You know, there was a very popular civil rights movement in this country some 40 years ago. You should look into it and see what good was accomplished, so you can better understand what tolerance is. Those lessons seem to be lost on you.

What to know how this came about.

You made racist remarks, I called you on it, you flipped out (how dare a conservative call ME that?) Now you're backpeddaling.

My statement

“The US decided to go into a country and forcibly remove its leader, forcible occupy that country. By doing this they have sparked off nationalistic feelings that Saddam was able to suppress. This in turn will not allow a democracy to be in power, this will not allow the Iraqis to have a better life. This will cause an extended civil war in the area that will cost the lives of thousands, and thousands, if not millions. All because they US would not consider any option other then war.”

Yeah, because they're Iraqis and not being ruled by a Tyrant anymore they will be psychotic and kill each other, because we all know that's what Muslims do, because they're savages.

You are such a pathetic racist hate monger it disturbs me. I can't believe you can live with yourself and this baltant hatred.

And ABN response

“CB, stop being so racist. Arabs are just as capable of governing themselves as the western cultures. I thought you lefties were supposed to be the tolerant ones. But you think simply because they're different they can't govern responsibly. It's amazing how intolerant you lefties really are.”

Yup, and I stand by that.

How he got that I was racist from that comment is beyond me.

BECAUSE YOU MADE A BLANTANTLY RACIST REMARK YOU INTOLERANT LITTLE MAN

Maybe it was in response from me calling his post irrational and he can not stand it,

CB, if there's anything that does not bother me it's being called irrational by a man that rationalizes the kind of racist anti-Arab sentiments that you do. The say being called irrantional by someone that condones that kind of hatred and ignorance is the day I embrace the French as brothers.

and wanted to hit me with something stronger.

No, it's because I'm tired of allowing a racist to claim the moral high ground. You do not have the moral high ground. Intolerant men can never hold the moral high ground.

Then of course the sheep followed the other sheep right off the edge of the cliff into disgrace and humiliation.

Wait, how can I be the other "sheep" if I was the first to say it? Whom did I follow? I think is this analogy I get to be the shepard. And you be the big bad racist, I meant wolf.

I would expect an issuing of a ban or something, but I know that it will not happen.

Yeah, I think you should be banned too for your hate speech, and I would accept one as well if the mods feel calling you on it is a bannable offence. In fact, I'll even alert a mod to this post so they know.

I shall expect an apology, but I know nothing would happen.

I don't apologize to bigots for calling them on their behavior.

Some people are not man enough I guess.

I'm sorry you're a hate filled bigoted racist.

Is that what you were looking for?

[shartley]

[Butterfingers]

Oh boy page 10 already?

Has collegeboy realized his rhetoric wont hold up to real scrutiny?

Welcome to the real world...

Preach your cystal ball theory to your cult of lefty anti war zombies while they smile and nod in unison...

For the rest of us common sense will prevail... not a crystal ball that has a remarkable ability to be proven wrong...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
You guys are beyond all hope. The Iraqi people are not suited for democracy. They might be suited for democracy when they go through some changes that are required to make democracy work, but until then it will just end in a tyrant at the helm of the government. If that is racist, then everyone in the world is a racist. This has nothing to do with them being Arab, with them being of a olive skin tone, or anything, it has to do with them not being ready for democracy at this point. They are not suited for democracy.

I love how people can throw around a name like racist so easily and how people afraid of being called it themselves automatically support him. Grow up people and learn, everything is not like you have it, why don’t you step out in that “real” world that you claim is so great one time.

I would expect an issuing of a ban or something, but I know that it will not happen. I shall expect an apology, but I know nothing would happen. Some people are not man enough I guess.

Actually CB that statement is racist. At its very core. So the label is certainly applicable to that statement. I certainly hope you don't really feel that way. Nothing about a particular race makes them unsuitable for a form of government.

The central issue of hate of Americans is a particularly Muslim extreemist view. It's nothing new. Its an extention of hate of Jewish as well. It wouldn't matter to these floks what we did or didn't do. They hate us just because we are not Muslims and will kill us wether we appease them or kill them. These extreemist gain power by intimidation and brutality. Then they go about dictating what the truth will be. And controlling with fear and missinformation. It really doesn't matter to these hard liners what we do or do not do. They glorify and financialy reward any of thier kind that kill us. And so it's been for many years. It's the extreemists we have to eradicate. And then the peacefull Muslims (a LARGE majority of the people are) will be unafraid to be peacefull. Until such time as this "Cancer" of extreemism is eradicated the breeding of hate will continue. They can only be ready for democracy when they have a strong government to protect it. And thats not going to come easy to a land where brutality and religon take the upper hand role in governing. We as a country decided long ago to seperate Religon from our Government and for good reason. You must remember that a lot of them have lived thier whole lives indoctronated into this hate. It will take time. In the mean time we have to protect ourselves by intervening into the core of it. We can no longer sit back and hope it goes away. They brought it to us. We gotta bring it back to them and root it out where it breeds. The Majority of them are quite smart and capable to do this. But they would be killed now. Peacefull people are not brutal enough to deal with these criminals that now control them. So to say they are not ready for democracy? Hogwash. Thats offensive to all of them. They no different than you and I. They just have to deal with gaining a strong government to control the lawlessness and people perverting thier religon to control them.

[Sir_Brass]

The Iraqi people are not suited for democracy.

Oh, and who made you God to decide these things, CB?

[Collegeboy]

Point out where I said the Iraqi people deserve to live under a tyrant because of their religion, race, skin tone, or anything related to being racist.

[shartley]

[Jeffy-CanCon]

CB, on page 8 of this thread, in a post datestamped 12-15-2003 04:44pm, you said:
I wouldn't say that the problems in South American are about who they are, or their race either. It is about they were not ready to handle democracy when the US put it on them. Saying that democracy is not for everybody, is not racist, it is the truth. Just like I said, monarchy is not for everyone, just like republicanism isn't for everyone, just like all forms of government. The world revolves in a dialectical pendulum movement. To reach C you have to go through B first, you can not go directly from A to C.

Nope people of all colors and credes can be ready for democracy. They just have to first reach B first.
...
As soon as they reach B, they deserve a chance to have what ever govenrment they want. But they need to first reach B.


So no, you did not directly say that Iraqis do not deserve democracy. But you have strongly implied it by your repeated assertion that they are not suited to it, after making the above post.

You have been asked to explain "A, B & C" for those less familiar with political theory, and they are still waiting. I won't go into it (partly because my own studies were quite some time ago), but I will state that I disagree with your assertion. For two contrary examples, I point to our own countries, neither of whom passed through a despotic era to reach their current state.

Re-reading this thread to find the above reference, I noted three things:

(1) Your assertion on p.2 at 12-11-2003 07:05am that Kurds are terrorists. While I am sure you didn't really intend to smear all those millions of people, it could be taken as further evidence of your racial biases by those so inclined.

Also, your statement on p.6 from 12-12-2003 12:53pm

...What makes you think that people who think like me don't do the same things. I plan on serving my country in the State Department. Of which I feel is just as if not more important then the military. For it doesn't matter if you whip your enemy in the field, you win or lose a war in the negotiations. ...

(2) The importance of diplomats is as almost as you have stated. A country needs both diplomats and soldiers to have an effective foreign policy. Good diplomats can make up for the shortfalls of the soldiers, and vice versa. As von Clausewitz said 'war is the continuation of politics by other means'. I can think of at least two historic examples where diplomacy lost a war after the troops had won in the field.

(3) While I wish you all the best otherwise, I hope you do not end up with any influence in the US State Department. Some of the things you have said in this thread lead me to believe that you have bought into the outdated imperialist notion of "the white mans burden". That kind of thinking isn't good for anybody.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Point out where I said the Iraqi people deserve to live under a tyrant because of their religion, race, skin tone, or anything related to being racist.

Well, this is page 10, so just start looking.

You have been clear that they cannot have a democracy and self rule. So what's the alternative? Um, perhaps the Tyranny they were living under (which you have been adamanent here and in other threads they were better off before we liberated them).

Plus, let us not forget your blanket statement that all Kurds are terrorists.

Oh, and your repeated assertion that the Iraqis can't self govern because of their Muslim religions.

Racist.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Point out where I said the Iraqi people deserve to live under a tyrant because of their religion, race, skin tone, or anything related to being racist.

Let's see, how many times have you stated that Iraqis aren't "suited" to live in a Democracy.

Hmmm, let's see, I guess we shouldn't allow those "Uppity Iraqis" experience the same freedoms that you so flagrantly abuse.

Hey, tell me again how all Kurds are terrorists.

Or my favorite: Hussein kept Iraq stable while he was in charge.

man that's a classic.... oh my sides...


tool.

[Collegeboy]

I find it funny, that in so many odd pages of post of which you all have called me a racist, you can not find one quote by me in which I have said anything that can be racist.

I have shown what my ideas are, and what they are not. I have shown what the claim of me being a racist has derived from. The claim is without backing. I shall expect an apology from all who called me a racist, or a banning for 3 days of the one who started it. But I doubt any of that will happen.

I shall show you some of the things which the world has shown through failures and successes as needed in order for a democracy to work as soon as I get the above. For to go on without the above would be to allow those who used a shameless and despicable argument to get off to easy. I have been very patient with the constant name calling, and the constant hateful remarks, but there are times when you need to draw the line in the sand. And this is where I choose to draw the line. I shall not issue name calling back, just ask for an apology, and I will forget it even happened.

[Southpaw]

Please do not hide behind not untill you get an apoloy! I for one have not called you a racist! But if I did I would DIRECTLY not like you have called me!

You all have sunk to beyond the levels I would put dogs on. According to St Agustus, you are about equal to a rock right now.

Calling me less than a dog and almost a rock.

I am sorry that I have to dumb down my post so that people can understand a simple comment.

Calling me dumb!

Then of course the sheep followed the other sheep right off the edge of the cliff into disgrace and humiliation.

And a sheep and a disgraced and humiliated one at that!
I will call you to your face what I think of you. If I think it is necessary/Others have not done it yet!

So dont hold yourself too much higher than the people calling you names! You do the same just with more words and blanket a few people at once!

[Collegeboy]

I did not call anyone a rock, or dumb, or a sheep. I said that I had to dumb down my post, which is far from calling someone dumb. I said that you all have fallen to the level of rocks as put forth by St. Augustus, do you know the analogy? I then said that you were acting like a sheep, maybe it can be taken as calling you a sheep, anyway it doesn't matter.

If you do not fit into the description that I laid forth for my analogies then you of course are not included in it.

If you want to know what it takes for a democracy to work in a country, I shall point you to numerous examples, numerous links, and numerous books. I shall ask you to look into how Turkey became or is becoming democratic, how India did, why it failed in Vietnam, why it is failing in South America (Not South Africa 1de), etc....

I am still waiting for this proof of me being a racist, or an apology from all involved and/or a banning of the one who started it.