And the Next Vice President is going to be....

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


I didn't spin anything. What I said is the truth. Like it or not, it will happen.

Yeah just like your "prediction" that we will still be looking for Hussein next fall.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


Lying about WOMD? Which is it? Didn't he have the nerve gas that killed as you say the Kurdish terrorists before we went in there?

Do you really think that he just decided to get rid of all the KNOWN stuff for humanitarian reasons? Or maybe because the UN told him to?

I can't belive even you could be that stupid. But I am willing to try.

Your asserion that the invasion of Iraq was illegal is pure nonsense.

Illegal according to whom? Some anti American group of internationalists? Please spare me your world court crap. We answer to no kangaroo court no matter how badly you may want us to.

So far your crystal ball is looking pretty crappy Boy. Better take it back to Wal-Mart and see if you can get your nickel back.

Saddam, Iran, and the US to a degree used the gas to kill the uprising Kurdish people that attacked their respected countries.

Maybe the weapon inspectors found most of it or all of it last time. The US have had how long to find these WOMD, how long did the US give Blitz.

It was illegal. So it is legal for another country to invade another. So why did we step in in 1990 or so when iraq invaded Kuwait, I mean that was legal. The UN is not anti-US. That is propaganda put forth by short minded people. Everyone looks after their own, easy as that.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


Saddam, Iran, and the US to a degree used the gas to kill the uprising Kurdish people that attacked their respected countries.

Maybe the weapon inspectors found most of it or all of it last time. The US have had how long to find these WOMD, how long did the US give Blitz.

It was illegal. So it is legal for another country to invade another. So why did we step in in 1990 or so when iraq invaded Kuwait, I mean that was legal. The UN is not anti-US. That is propaganda put forth by short minded people. Everyone looks after their own, easy as that.

Horsecrap, Boy.

You are actually saying that the US not only agreed to gasing the Kurds, but condoned it? Are you friggin high?

WTF are they teaching you children these days?

Yeah and maybe the weapons inspectors had their heads so far up the collective backsides they were looking at their teeth instead of finding what they were supposed to be looking for.

The inspections were a farce. PERIOD. They were a miserable faliure on the part of your precious UN. And thank GOD the Bush administration knew it. The inspectors were told when and where they were going to be ALLOWED to inspect. Pretty damned convenient huh. But that doesn't matter to you. Oh noooooooo, we shoud have STILL been inspecting instead of kicking Hussein right in the junk.

Get this through your thick skull. Hussein and Al Qaeda were in bed together. Your argument that they somehow didn't get along because one of their religious beliefs is crap. CRAP. They were in it together becasue of one overriding thing, they both hate the USA.

The evidence is overwhelming that they had strong ties to each other. The fact that you liberals can't seem to figure this out is downright scary.

And YOU want to be in charge? Forget it, you libeals are INCOMPETENT when it comes to international affairs. You've proved it over and over again.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
The UN is not anti-US. That is propaganda put forth by short minded people.

Yeah right. the UN has the best interests of MY country at heart.

You realy are clueless.

[Southpaw]

In referance to WOMD you should read this again it is from your do no evil boy Clinton

Bush is anything but moral. So what Clinton lied about having sex, that is a far cry from lying about supporting terrorist that lead to 911, or how about lying about WOMD to invade a foreign country illegally. Great morals.

Does under oath mean any thing in your "morals"? you seem to forget that and the whole Clinton using WOMD to attack Iraq too why is that? also if you could respond to the A+b=C steps to a democracy (from a closed thread) . Feel free to PM me with your ideas on that. Thank you

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
Attacking Iraq has nothing for our security. There are many ways I would suppose (for I do not feel like coming up with my own right now) of which you could have handled this situation better. Illegally attacking a foreign country is not how you do it.

Ugh, I'm so tired of that line. It was believed at the time by nearly every nation on earth that Saddam had WMD. Our last three Presidents have concurred that Saddam was a threat to us. Congress has on many occassions stated the same (over the past 10 years). There was a general consensus in this country that d to his anti-American posture, the new threat of global terror (I realize it isn't a "new" threat, it's really just the first time we started thinking about it), and his suspected WMD he was a national security threat.

Now, it is possible to be mistaken. I still believe that we were right about our reasons to go in, but I'm a realist so I'll concede that anything is possible, including everyone being wrong about his WMD. I still don't think so, but it's always possible. But being wrong (if that is the case) doesn't negate the fact that we went in for a national security purpose. To say otherwise is just a lie (so I'm sure you'll keep saying it).

As for the illegal war. The UN resolution ambigiously authorized the use of force. It wasn't so clear as to silence all critics, but I think it was clear enough that the Bush Administration had a right to use it to declare war. Oh, and while on that subject, I'd like to point out for the 100th time that we were already at war with Iraq, in a UN sanctioned war from 12 years ago. That war was never ended, a cease fire was signed, not a peace treaty. Saddam clearly violated the cease fire, so we re-engaged him.

Gandhi himself said that you must have to first be the one you wish others to follow. What would have happened if the US was to open its boarders to inspectors. I mean we have nothing to hide, or do we. I wonder what is in Anniston.

Huh? That's so stupid. Who cares what we have? I mean really, who cares? Everyone knows we have nukes. And everyone knows we completely and totally lack the will to use any WMD except as a retaliation. Even if we had EVERY biological weapon in the world we would never use them (I would, by the way), and everyone knows it. That's why they didn't fear us PRIOR to us knocking Iraq out.

I will say one thing, Bush was smart when he declared the war was over with the entry into Baghdad. For he as now separated it up into two parts. "war" and rebuilding. So when he has to pull the troops out (say in 10 months or so) he can say we won the war, and it is time the Iraqis do their fair share. I do believe he didn't even think he could have handled Iraq like he claimed. Their is no way a western person with a totally different culture, language, etc.. can do what Bush wants in a different country. It is just not going to happen.

It is happening now. Iraqis are governing themselves on the local level. Iraqis are policing themselves in large part. Iraqis are helping to rebuild their country. Iraqis are in the process of forming a government. Iraqis are working hard to get the job done. The fact that we aren't of the same culture helps and not hinders us. First, we know the potential of the the society we're trying to help them create. Most of Iraq's Arab neighbors frankly do not, and have no idea how to set up a democracy (they have been forced into Tyranny most of their lives after all). Second, being different from them is a great excuse for them to step up to the plate and take care of things themselves so we can get out, and they know it.

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
It was illegal. So it is legal for another country to invade another. So why did we step in in 1990 or so when iraq invaded Kuwait, I mean that was legal. The UN is not anti-US. That is propaganda put forth by short minded people. Everyone looks after their own, easy as that.

Iraq was not going to set up a goverment in Kuwait! We may have a base in Iraq for a # of years but it will never be our next state! if you can not see the difference between Iraq invading Kuwati and the US invading Iraq I feel for you!

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
So why did we go into Iraq, there was no NS reasons. According to your own mouth, it wasn't mainly for the WOMD idea but humanitarian reasons. So why Iraq, and not the former Yugoslavia.

Um, that's not what I said. I've always backed up the notion that our primary reason was to go in for WMD and secondarily to free the oppressed people of Iraq. Humantarian reasons is simply not enough for most conservatives to risk blood and treasure.

Although I do say that anytime you can liberate any people it is the right thing to do.

War is suppose to be world.

What kind of ignorance is that?

It will happen, wait and see.

What will happen?

Bush is anything but moral.

Listen, I know you "centrists" have this irrational hatred for Bush, but try to be honest every once in a while. Bush is a VERY moral man. That's one of things you hate about him

So what Clinton lied about having sex,

If he hadn't done it under oath I wouldn't have minded. I don't care that he lies to his wife. But when he lies to a grand jury, and frankly when he goes on TV and lies to the country he's supposed to lead I take issue with that.

that is a far cry from lying about supporting terrorist that lead to 911,

But, you're lying about it now. They never said that Saddam was connected to 9/11 (although now it appears he may have indirectly) They did say he was connected to terrorists, and tons of terrorists were found in Iraq when we went into Baghdad, so the claim seems substaniated

or how about lying about WOMD

He didn't lie. EVERYONE for the past ten years has been on board that Saddam had WMD. From Bush to Clinton to Bush to France to Turkey to Russia to Britain to Tom Daschle. They all spoke about his WMD and his failure to disarm numereous times.

Now, it's possible they were mistaken (which I still doubt) but they didn't lie.

to invade a foreign country illegally.

If by illegal you mean in accordance with a signed and violated cease fire then yes, just like that

Great morals.

I like em'

What am i getting at. YOU CAN NOT USE MORALS TO ELECT A PERSON.

Then alow me to retort with "In that case we can start electing racists like you"

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
I didn't spin anything.

No, you didn't. I agree. You outright lied, which is difference.

What I said is the truth. Like it or not, it will happen.

Question. How can something that didn't happen yet possibly be the truth? It's the future, you can't predict it. And you are frankly an increible arrogant person to continue to insist that you can.

Bush put forth something that not even he can control.

Actually, Bush finished something that is controlled

Iraq posed no threat to us, did not support terrorist

Except of course the terrorists that received help from Baghdad and Saddam's military and intelligence forces

(not including Palestinians for we can argue that day in and day out)

He paid the Palestinians to kill Jews. The deal was, if you blow up Jews he gives you family money. We cannot argue that without you lying about it. That's what he did. It is not a debatable point if that consitutes support.

, had no weapons that could harm us.

That's a lie. We know he had them at one point. We verifibly saw them and everyone knows it. We cataloged what he had. He didn't verifiably destroy it as he was required to do. Now, what he did with the weapons is anybody's guess, but he failed to live up to his end of the bargain, and he was punished for it.

N. Korea poses a threat, but we will deal with them diplomatically and give into their demands.

Well, if Jimmy Carter and Bill CLinton hadn't paid them to continue their nuke program I'm sure we would go in guns blazing. But we can't now precisely because they weren't dealt with the was Iraq was.

And when I say can't, I mean we could, but it wouldn't be nearly as easy as Iraq. Lot's of people would likely die and it's very possible that the North starts lobbing crude nukes, so we'll try diplomacy and see if it works (just like we did with Iraq). If it fails for a long time (as it may or may not) we may have to kick it up a notch and use force. But not until after the election

The Steel Tariffs are illegal and should be done away with. But read Bush's words, he really did not get rid of them.

They are still looking into how to get rid of them, the unions are kavetching a lot. Personally, I think he should just scrap them 100% overnight. But he's trying to appease the unions, which I think is stupid since they keep throwing their support behind everyone but Bush. I would cut their umbilical cord and stop giving into them, and he eventually will, and the tarrifs will be scrapped.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
Saddam, Iran, and the US to a degree used the gas to kill the uprising Kurdish people that attacked their respected countries.

The US? No way boy. We did not participate in that. We made the mistake of backing Iraq against Iran, but we didn't launch chemical weapons into Kuristan.

Maybe the weapon inspectors found most of it or all of it last time. The US have had how long to find these WOMD, how long did the US give Blitz.

They did find a lot of it. But they didn't destroy nearly anything that they found, which means he still had it when they left.

It was illegal.

Nope

So it is legal for another country to invade another.

When the contry being invaded violated a cease fire, YES. otherwise why have a cease fire?

So why did we step in in 1990 or so when iraq invaded Kuwait, I mean that was legal.

They didn't have Un authorization, which we did in the first Gulf war. Which we also did for this war (according to some that read the resolution, others disagree) and do to the violated cease fire

The UN is not anti-US. That is propaganda put forth by short minded people. Everyone looks after their own, easy as that.

Right, sort of. Because they view their self interests as opposite to ours they behave in an anti-us fashion.

Except for France, who actually believes that opposing us on everything IS their self interest.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
So why did we go into Iraq, there was no NS reasons. According to your own mouth, it wasn't mainly for the WOMD idea but humanitarian reasons. So why Iraq, and not the former Yugoslavia.

Maybe Yugoslavia had not strategic importance to the USA. What about the EU, this is in their own backyard. People like you drive me up the wall. You only want the US to intervene in your just causes, but if the cause does not meat your criteria then you rail aganst it for all you are worth.

War is suppose to be world.

This makes no sense!

It will happen, wait and see.

We have already seen how accurate your predictions are. We got Saddam. The Republicans passed a medicare Rx plan. The world is safer for not having Saddam in power. The world is safer for having Libya renounce WoMD. We just need to grab Osama and you will be wrong about everything.

Bush is anything but moral. So what Clinton lied about having sex, that is a far cry from lying about supporting terrorist that lead to 911, or how about lying about WOMD to invade a foreign country illegally. Great morals.

That' right spout rumor and innuendo as facts. George Bush did not break the law while president. GWB did not lose his law license in his home state due to perjury did he?

What am i getting at. YOU CAN NOT USE MORALS TO ELECT A PERSON.

It helps.

I think I have figured you out. I had a great conversation with my buddy Rick and he told me something that fits you. You may be doing well in college and be smart as a whip. However you lack the WISDOM that comes with age to measure your responses. If you did you would see the arrogance and stupidity in so many of the remarks you make. The world is neither black nor white, but many shades of gray.

[spazzed]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Originally posted by Collegeboy


I think I have figured you out. I had a great conversation with my buddy Rick and he told me something that fits you. You may be doing well in college and be smart as a whip. However you lack the WISDOM that comes with age to measure your responses. If you did you would see the arrogance and stupidity in so many of the remarks you make. The world is neither black nor white, but many shades of gray.

Sorry, but I can't help but laugh at that one...I don't think anyone could have said it much better 1de

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
[B
I think I have figured you out. I had a great conversation with my buddy Rick and he told me something that fits you. You may be doing well in college and be smart as a whip. However you lack the WISDOM that comes with age to measure your responses. If you did you would see the arrogance and stupidity in so many of the remarks you make. The world is neither black nor white, but many shades of gray. [/B]

took you THIS long?

I used to think he was fairly intelligent. He proved me wrong. he parrots whatever crap the rest of the liberals he hangs out with are yapping about and nothing more.

nothing but another Bush hater.

[Albinonewt]

Did you hear Clark's new round of stupidity?

He credits Clinton with getting Libiya to disarm and says George Bush had nothing to do with it. How can that be? Clark does know that Clinton hasn't been in office for THREE YEARS doesn't he?

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Did you hear Clark's new round of stupidity?

He credits Clinton with getting Libiya to disarm and says George Bush had nothing to do with it. How can that be? Clark does know that Clinton hasn't been in office for THREE YEARS doesn't he?

He's using the Nikita Dean method of campainging. Trash Bush, act the fool, and the nutjob libs will love you...

You know who gets the credit for Libya seeing the light? THE FOURTH ID! HOORAH!