Catholics aren't Christians?

[Crime Dog]

[ZSigErik]

wow, a truely impressive post.

[Matt1427]

..

Catholics are christians, its just another denomination, like baptist, methodist, penicostal. And yeah I know all about it.

[Crime Dog]

Exactly.

This coming from an ex-Catholic turned Protestant.

[ASDadam]

I do pose one difference. Peter, anyone remember him? The First Apostle Jesus chose was Peter.
Matthew 16:18 says "Upon this rock i will build my church." The rock God was refering to was Peter who had so devoutly proven himself time and time again to Jesus and his lord. Does anyone know who the first catholic pope was? That would be St. Peter, so in fact what you say about the founding of the Catholic church years after Jesus was risen is in fact false. So i ask that you in fact due some in depth study first. I'll end this post with that and allow further rebuttle as i am due in work now.

[Crime Dog]

*smiles a little* Yes...I'm well aware of the Catholic interpretation of that particular Scripture. And in fact, I HAVE done in depth study on it.

The scripture you're referring to comes from Matthew 16:18, as you stated. However, when you read that particular verse in it's context (meaning, you read the verses before and after it, in order to get the fuller, broader meaning of a single statement), that particular interpretation isn't supported.

Chapter 16 is the passage where Jesus asks Peter who he believes Jesus to be. After various OTHER people's answers are given as to possible solutions to Jesus's identity, Peter finally states in verse 16, "You are the CHrist, the Son of the living God." Jesus replies by telling Peter that this fact wasn't revealed by man to him, but by God. That statement took faith to make, especially since the world rejected that answer.

When you go back to the Greek, when Jesus says "...you are Peter", the word there used is "petros" meaning, a stone...or a pebble. Jesus then goes on to say, "...and upon this rock I will build My Church." The word for "rock" used there is different than the one used for Peter...it is "petra" meaning large rock; bed-rock. As shown from other Scripture that Jesus is actually the foundation of the church (1 Corinthians 3:10), and no other man. Therefore, when read in context, that "rock" means "bedrock" (a foundation of something), the more proper understanding of this scripture means that Jesus is actually pointing back to himself when he says "And upon THIS rock (pointing to himself) I will build my church." Peter "rock, pebble" was just a small part of the larger "rock". As we all are...

You say "The rock God was refering to was Peter who had so devoutly proven himself time and time again to Jesus and his lord", but you fail to point out that Peter had in fact failed quite miserably in "proving himself" to his Lord. He in fact, denied him 3 times in front of everyone. Did he repent? Yes. However, Peter was not exactly a shining example of faithfulness. Did Jesus love Peter? Certainly. But he also loved the rest of the Apostles.

You ask if anyone knows who the first Catholic pope was, and then answer that it was Peter. That is the Catholic's claim...but it's not a claim that all Christians accept. Why? Because we differ on our interpretation of this particular scripture.

And finally, again I point to the early Church. It was Jewish... They were Jews by birth, recognized Jewish holidays, and did not participate in the sacraments as Roman Catholics practice them today. There is no scriptural precedent for a believer having to go to a priest to confess sins. Instead, Scripture says in James 5:16 "Therefor confess your sins to EACH OTHER and pray for each other so that you may be healed." It does not state to confess sins to a priest, and for the priest to intercede for you. The whole idea that the curtain in the temple was torn from top to bottom (or was it bottom to top?) signified that man could come now directly before God, and did not need a human intercessor such as a Catholic Priest.

So again, the Catholic Church as we know it today did not start immediately after Jesus's death and resurrection. It developed over time, and then Catholic tradition in fact reached back to claim Peter as it's first Pope.

Do I still believe Catholics are Christians? Yep! I sure do! I just don't agree with all the Catholic teachings on Scripture, or many Catholic "traditions" that are placed on equal footing with Scripture.

[brian]

YOU ARE ALL SHEEP! The last time I checked the world was round, wake up from your idealistic religious fantasies!
BBBAAAAAAA!

[Thordic]

Well, when I first saw this post, I had a feeling it would get locked.

Now I know for sure

[Crime Dog]

This thread doesn't have to be locked in the least, as long as we remain respectful and civil. Of course, with posts like brian's, it definitely makes it more of a challenge...but...

*ignores brian*

[mcveighr]

Perhaps the poster was reffering to how the Catholics stuck to the original beliefs? As opposed to the Reformist's or Calvinist's(is this a word?).

But I'm just going by what I learned in History class, and we also learned about Evoulution in history, and you don't seem the type that understands/believes in evoulution so yyou probably wouldnt find that all that credible.

Also, as for the bible saying that we shouldn't pray to the dead. Read the gay marriage thread, the bible says alot of things.

[Crime Dog]

Well, that's my point. The "original beliefs" of the early church don't include things like confession (in today's understanding of confessing to a priest for him to intercede), or infant baptism (Scripture points to adults that were baptized), or the idea of purgatory and such. Those are all later developments in the "Church".

You learned about evolution in...History? I thought that was a "science". Please tell me that public schools aren't teaching evolution in History class...

And I'm not sure what you mean about gay marriage and the Bible... I don't want to get off topic into gay marriage anyway...

[mcveighr]

And I'm not sure what you mean about gay marriage and the Bible... I don't want to get off topic into gay marriage anyway...

Yeah, neither did I, but someone made an informative post about some of the beliefs listed in the old testament. If I'm not mistaken, Christians use both?

I thought that was a "science". Please tell me that public schools aren't teaching evolution in History class...

Yes, it was an ancient history class, so we studied some of the ancient types of man. We didn't go into much depth, not near as much as Biology.

Also I'm in Canada, it's my understanding that we're a bit more liberal than the US.

[thecavemankevin]

Originally posted by brian
YOU ARE ALL SHEEP! The last time I checked the world was round, wake up from your idealistic religious fantasies!
BBBAAAAAAA!

we all live forever in one way or another. It's what you do in this world that deams what happens to you in the next.

If you keep living like there is no god....you'd better be right!

[dansim]

LOCK IT!

[ej_y4]

Catholics are Christians!im not Catholic and dont hold to some of there believes. besides i dont think this is something we should not be talking about on AO. this thread is only going to start problems between people.