Need a Digital Camera

[PaInTbAlLeR476]

I have decided it is time to purchase a new digital camera. I would like it to be 300$ or less, and have an AMAZING zoon(stock not looking to buy anything for it). Currently i have been taking alot of PB action shots and my dads camera is fine, i would just feel horribal if it got shot and broken. So it is time to purchase my own. Any suggestion? He has the cannon powershot g2, and i would like something that has a zoom a little better then it, and chaper. Thanks for the help.


Steve

[Muzikman]

You have one problem. Most digital camera around $300 are only going to have 3x zoom. If you can come up with about $100 more Olympus has a decent 4MP camera with 10x optical zoom (CAMEDIA C-765 )(remember, optical zoom is what you want, ignore digital zoom numbers). I personally do not like this camera, but it fits what you want and is pretty close to your price range.

[deathstalker]

Check the Fuji S3000 and S5000 models. The S3000 is under $300 and has a 6X optical zoom (and a 3.2X digital), while the S500 can be found for $350-$400 with a 10X optical zoom (and 2.2X digital).

[Bluestrike_2]

Obviously, you're strapped for cash. There are many cameras out there, but walk with caution. A few tips:

Ok, now remember MEGAPIXELS ARE NOT THE DECIDING FACTOR IN QUALITY. Say it with me. Megapixels are not the deciding factor in quality. Repeat. Ah, I don't feel like typing it.

If digital is what you want, then go Nikon. A little biased, but the F100, F5, N90, N80, N70, and N60 that I own are all great cameras. Great optics as well. (These are Film SLRs.)

Although a nice 35mm SLR would go great. Less expensive, better quality.

Digital will provide a nice image, but it does not capture as much detail as 35mm, atleast not yet. Now, whether you notice this is another thing. For web, this is ok. But when you start getting into the more-professional circles, your images will clearly show a difference compared to 35mm. Now, in 1-2 years, this line will ONLY be seen by those who are very knowledgable and like to nit-pick. 2-3 years, the line between 35mm and digital will be very subtle, if at all present. Now, medium-format and large format will still have a very strong line between them.

Large format will always have a VERY firm line in between. Now, that line will decrease in the future, but will still be there.

Digital is just another format, and should be treated as such. It does not replace film, but it does not mean that it is bad. Would I take a D2H over the N series? Yes. But it also costs 5x as much. Over the F series? Never! Over my medium-format(Mamiya and Rollei)? Over my dead body. Over a large format camera? Over my dead, rotting, stinking corpse being eaten my maggots and acid. Burning.

[Bluestrike_2]

quick note: The "F" Professional series, not consumer.

Camera reccomendations:

Film:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=247088&is=USA
Nikon -N55 35mm SLR Autofocus Camera Kit with Nikon 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6 G-AF Lens
$229.95

Digital:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=315925&is=REG
Nikon Coolpix 3200, 3.2 Megapixel, 3x Optical/ 4x Digital Zoom, Point-and-shoot, Digital Camera
$249.99

Then, with the money saved from a 35mm camera, go out and buy a Ref Shield.

Oh yea, a good Nikon flash.(for fill flash)In the future as they cost upwards of about $150 for a GOOD one.

Such as:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=220440&is=USA
SB-50 DX Nikon Flash for 35mm Nikon cameras. $165 - $25 mail in rebate.

[Muzikman]

Blue, you make some good points, but also some not so true points. Digital is here, it is as good as film, but the upfront cost of a good digital is much more than any 35mm (take a look at the Canon 1Ds). You are also right that more MP does not mean better quality, but in todays day and age of digital cameras, most CCDs/CMOS are almost the same. So to find a 3mp camera that has as good of an image as a 5 MP camera is not as easy today as it was comparing the difference between 1 and 2mp. If that makes sense.

Having shot 35mm for about 18 years, I finally took the step last year to true SLR digital. And although the body cost 3x more, the money that I am saving in film and prints (even if I did my own B&W) is huge. So while film bodies are cheaper, please inform these people that there are additional costs in film and processing.

Kodak has realized this and is now converting to all digital cameras. Will this happen in the Nikon/Canon markets? Not for years to come, but it is happening.

EDIT: On a side note, have you seen some of the prints that are coming off the 30mp CCD back for medium format cameras? These things are amazing, but cost nearly $20K without the camera.

[Bluestrike_2]

Muzik,

I agree with you that digital is here to stay. Yet, the large-format cameras will not be beaten by digital for a while. Yes, in the cost-saving department, but no in that mystical quality.

For you see, I used to spend days down in the darkroom, developing black and white prints. This taught me something. You must truly take your photographs with care, and make each one count. Now, with digital I can just take a hundred shots. If only one is good, ok. It's the same as shooting two or three hundred paintballs at 15 B.P.S. to get someone out. Accuracy by volume. Sadly, people will not remember this in the future, and will shoot with volume.

Now, there are hidden costs with digital as well.

To store these photographs, it costs money. For the Gigabytes/TERAbytes required. I have roughly 50,000 transparencies that I want to scan and manage on the computer. At close to 100mb per image for 35mm, that is costly. Even larger for medium format. Then, the large format negatives must be scanned by a lab($20k for a Drum scanner is insane, I could never purchase one). That costs a lot. In space and money for the scan itself.

I will need a LOT of external firewire drives to store all this. Imagine trying to justify it. Then, each job/folder is burned to three CD's, soon to be DVDs.
1) Original
2) Working
3) Final [Client]

And the client disks are printed CD-Rs. Professionalism...

Then, you have the computer itself. Storing thousands of images is not an easy task. To manage these photographs, your computer needs power to use the programs( Whether it be iPhoto or Extensis Portfolio).

Then the paper. Not cheap for high quality rolls.

Then ink. It costs close to $80(somewhere up there) to fill my Epson up. That's a lot.

So, there are hidden costs for both formats.

Rebuttal for development costs: Eckerd's 1 hour photo does not cost nearly as much as a professional lab, such as Filmet. http://www.filmet.com

I use them for both my digital and film work. I had an old, 30+ year old photograph of family in front of their RV and it was in horrid shape. For about $500 and two weeks, it was completely repaired. That is something that alone proves that what digital can accomplish is amazing.
=====================
I was thinking more of in the higher end range of film, and comparing it to the point-and-shoot digitals.

The optic difference between two companies/price points can be amazing. My Rollei's prints are night and day compared to the Mamiya. Because of optics. A $200 P-A-S Digital camera does not have as good of optics as similair SLRs at a similair price point.

And they can all pry my Nikon F5 out from my cold, dead hands! Same with my D100. And all others.

In all honesty, I use both formats. Both serve their purposes.
=====================
The Medium Format Backs:

One word:
Phase One H 25 Digital Back
-22 megapixel H 25 DB. $30,000.00
-Hasselblad H1. $2,213.00
-35 mm f/3.5 HC lens $2636
-150mm f/3.5 HC lens $2621
-210mm f/3.5 HC lens $2499
-50-110 f/3.5-4.5 HC lens $3445
-Powerbook G4 17" - $3,000
Forgetting the tether cable............ PRICELESS!

The quality of those would indeed approach large format. Yet, they are a niche market we all dream of entering, but cannot afford to. Trying to justify all of that......... I would be crucified.

BTW, I own a Nikon D100. Would have gone for a D1X/D2H, but decided against it. I only wanted to experiment with digital, to prepare for the future. Very nice camera.

[Muzikman]

First off, watch the CD-r/w and DVD-r's for achiving. There are people out there having problems with even 2 year old burned CDs. I went the route of cheap internal hard drives and tape for archiving. I have a swap bay in one machine that I archive all the photos onto and then take to my fathers house for off site storage. I use two drives and just keep rotating them about once a month or sooner if I take some photos I do not want to lose. The cost of 250GB drives are pretty reasonable.

I look at the computer and storage of digital photos as a very minor cost compared to film and processing. As for digital prints, I don't bother doing that at home, that costs WAY too much for even average quality photos. There are a few places online that do some good quality prints of a digital file for a very reasonable price. The place I end up at most often is SAMS club. Most of them have the Fuji Frontier system. This thing spits out unbelievable prints for cheap. Now I have not personally done any tests to see what the life time of the print is, but from what I read, it gets pretty good reviews. The cost is as little as .19 cents for 4x6 to $1.96 for 8x10 or even 8x12. There is no way I could buy the paper and feed my printer for this kind of price.

I do agree on optics. There is no way that any P&S camera will have the optics of a good SLR lens. But then again, you are looking at the difference between an entire camera for $300 and just a lens for $1000. I am a believer in buying the best glass you can, but that adds up REAL fast. When I jumped from film to digital I went from a Canon AE1-Program to a Canon 10D. Since it has different lens mounts (and the AE1-P is all manual) I ended up buying all new lenses...not pretty on the credit card

[PaInTbAlLeR476]

Im not really strapped for cash, i just dont want to spend a ton a money and have it get shot. I looked at the CAMEDIA C-765 and it is nice. About how big is it? I cant find dimensions for it? The camera i have been using is pretty beefy(Canon powershot g2) and im hoping this one is a tad smaller. I found it online for $350, so i may look into it and get it.

[Muzikman]

Im not really strapped for cash, i just dont want to spend a ton a money and have it get shot. I looked at the CAMEDIA C-765 and it is nice. About how big is it? I cant find dimensions for it? The camera i have been using is pretty beefy(Canon powershot g2) and im hoping this one is a tad smaller. I found it online for $350, so i may look into it and get it.

It's pretty small (Dimensions 105 x 60 x 69 mm (4.1 x 2.4 x 2.7 in) ) Taken from http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...oly_c765uz.asp

EDIT: Also, if you are smart about it, it should not get hit, ot atleast directly. I did take a ball to the front of a $1000 lens once, but it was my own stupid fault

[Bluestrike_2]

along with the CD's, I have them backed up in a RAID 5 storage system inside an old Winblows machine on my home network. Yea, the network it a single piece of Cat5, but it works pretty well. I can also control the machine from my Mac. Thanks for the tip on the CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. I'll have to be careful about that one.

BTW, for my prints, I use Filmet Color Labs. It costs about a dollar for an 8x10, but it is from a Lightjet printer, which prints it using chemicals. The quality of the print is impossible to tell the difference between it and a regular print. http://www.filmet.com The Filmet Connect thing is pretty cool. FTP your prints to them. That is pretty cool on the convenience side.

How did you manage to get your lense shot? Reminds me of when I was taking a few photographs during a 1on1 game between two kids. Well, the one kid shot me. Again and again. I crawled down on the ground pretty fast to protect the camera, but ended up busting the flash and bending the connectors on the bracket. But that lense was ok. Except for that really big chip on that B&W filter.(the company, not black and white)

[Muzikman]

Wow, I didn't realize Filmet was that cheap. I have driven past one of their labs many times, just never gave them any thought figuringing they are way over priced. For anything larger than 8x12 I send stuff off to Portland Color. The 24x36 prints I have gotten back are amazing, but also cost an arm and a leg. I'll have to look into Filmet as they are actually local to me.

As for being hit in the lens...I was backed into a corner at AOSC and got pinned behind a guy in the snake. Person in the far corner was shooting at him while a guy on that same side was shooting at someone in a rear stand up...it wasn't pretty...but thank god for UV filters. And oddly enough, there was no damnage to the lens, just hard to clean.

I'll see if I can find the pic that was snapped just after it was hit. I am not sure I posted it or not.

[Mr.Minus]

check out the kodak with a 10* zoom

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=30-170-011&depa=7

for 437

[Bluestrike_2]

Ok, uhhh that has to be the most embarassing typo I have ever made. By far the worst.

Scanned the price list for you(Digital Section):








I am very sorry about the HUGE sizes. Never realized that when I batch scanned 'em.

http://www.profilmet.com