Bikers... Please read and be carefull out there

[bofh]

You just posted a conundrum(sp?) here.

Seatbelt and helmet laws do not protect "just you". They protect the other driver or riders in your vehicle.

Also, say that you get into a head-on collision and you are not wearing your seatbelt. You get thrown through the windshield and slam into the windshiled of the other car. The person who was wearing their seatbelt now has to contend by being hit by your body which is a human missille.

While unlikely I know it demonstrates why to government must enact laws to make everyone safe.

One unlikely sceranio does not make justifcation of an infringment of a personal freedom. I can see laws that ensure than minors have to use safety equipment, but once you are given the right to vote, you should have the ability to decide on your own personal safety.

And pray tell, how do you defend the Hemlet Law? How does that protect other people?

I would love to ANY statistic on people injured by an unbelted person.

[mirthvader]

As a biker, I've always considered helmet laws a great case of "Thinning the Herd". In the wild, it is the old, the weak and the stupid that get killed or eaten. This increases the strength of the species by allowing only the strong, smart ones to breed.

Bikers who don't wear helmets are a perfect example of the stupid. They are increasing the strength of the human species. Too bad a lot of the old ones have already had time to contribute to the stupidity of the human race.

Anyone who rides a lot knows that eventually you are going to go down. It doesn't have to be your fault and you don't have to get hurt if you are wearing the proper equipment. But chances are, either you or somebody else is going to screw up and it will be the biker that is kissing the dirt.

[Hasty8]

One unlikely sceranio does not make justifcation of an infringment of a personal freedom. I can see laws that ensure than minors have to use safety equipment, but once you are given the right to vote, you should have the ability to decide on your own personal safety.

And pray tell, how do you defend the Hemlet Law? How does that protect other people?

I would love to ANY statistic on people injured by an unbelted person.

First of all, I openly stated that the scenario I described was unlikely.

Second, the government has the right to doctate what you do to yourself, i.e., suicide.

Think of this perhaps. You have a young child whom you love and who loves you very much. One sunny Saturday you go out for a ride without your helmet.

And never come back.

Now, did that decision to not wear your helmet effect solely you or did it effect a wide spectrum of people.

There is no rational argument against helmets and the government has every right and even the responsiblity to ensure that it's citizens act responsibly, not only to themselves but to society as a whole.

[Hasty8]

Seat belt and helmet laws/fines are just revenue source for the government. If they were so concerned about personal safety then why haven't they outlawed eating, talking or listening to music while driving?

Seat belt laws were not started to keep human missles out of the air. They are an easy way to make money for the government.

When they realize there is money to be made off fines for those items, then they will be outlawed.

I honestly hope that you are not equating listening to the radio while driving with slamming your head into the pavement at 80 miles an hour.

As soon as there are conclusive studies that show eating, talking or listening to music provide for a greatly disproportionate number of accidents then I am sure we will see legislation to curb these activities.

As for me, I choose not to eat while driving. Not only is it an unwarratend distraction it also makes my car a mess.

[Hasty8]

One other thing here folks.

The law is the law whether you think it is right or wrong. It is not up to you to choose which laws you uphold becasue you agree with them and which laws you break because you don't agree.

Lawlessness is lawlessness.

Not a lecture, just my POV.

[cphilip]

Now read this one:

http://zrxoa.org/03Z1Rthreads/hitandrun.htm

[Hasty8]

Now read this one:

http://zrxoa.org/03Z1Rthreads/hitandrun.htm

I'm not sure what the point is that you are trying to make here.

Yes, it is a horrid story but are you showing this to demonstrate the need for or the uslessness of helmet laws?

[cphilip]

No.... and why do you care what point I am making either way? Is it some issue for you to assume I have any ulterior motive but the obvious? It makes no sense to me how you concluded it had anything to do with ANY stance on helmet laws.

The point, since I have to spell it out, is to wear your safety gear. All of it. Purchase safety gear that is comfortable and don't skimp on it. In that last story it was not just Helmets he did not wear. Thats my point. Laws or not. I never even brought up helmet laws myself. That was someone else.

My point here was to encourage safety by choice. And it was obvious we had a few new riders here on the board lately from a lot of posts about new bikes.

[SlartyBartFast]

Seat belt and helmet laws/fines are just revenue source for the government.

Blah, blah, blah .... Do you think all the other fines are just revenue sources as well? Even if they are revenue IS needed by government. Have to pay the police somehow.

Helmet, seat belt, and other laws are perhaps contentious because many think of them as attacks on personal choice/freedom. Yet, how seriously you are injured in an accident DOES impact society at large. Unless there's a way to easily enforce and identify who has decided to opt out of ALL help from society in the event of serious injury, everyone needs to be held to a minimum standard or society has to decide it's worth the added cost of picking up after the idiots.

As for the fascicious questioning about eating/talkin/listening to music while driving, you'll find that the police can charge you for dangerous driving in many jurisdictions if any of those activities are obviously interfereing with your driving.

[SlartyBartFast]

Now read this one:

http://zrxoa.org/03Z1Rthreads/hitandrun.htm

How unfortunate.

I have to wonder though. How visible was his bike?

I can't say how many times I've been blinded by the jerks on bikes who have enough wattage to light the entire landscape in font of them but have little pinpoints as rear lights.

Many of my biker freinds brag about having switches to turn of their rear lights and palte lights to become invisible and evade cops. Those twerps deserve to be rear-ended one day.

That the biker in question was hit by an idiot that didn't even bother to stop is horrendous. That he was driven to take his own life is disappointing.

[bofh]

The government has the right to doctate what you do to yourself.

Once you believe this, you can no longer be reasoned with.

[SlartyBartFast]

Once you believe this, you can no longer be reasoned with.

Have to agree with you there.

The government should stick to how you affect others. The example given was stupid too. Suicide isn't illegal. Assisted-suicide is. And it isn't illegal for the person commiting the suicide but for the person assisting.

[cphilip]

How unfortunate.

I have to wonder though. How visible was his bike?

The Golden rule of biking is to assume your invisible to all.... And you are to many. I don't know how many times I have glanced down the road before puling out and not seen a biker for a moment or two. So keep in mind no one see's you.

If your not driving defensively and with partialy white knuckles on a bike your not doing it right.

And if your wearing safety equipment there should be less damage. I was attempting to get this topic to not just think only about Helmets and point out the other gear can be just as important...

[Hasty8]

No.... and why do you care what point I am making either way? Is it some issue for you to assume I have any ulterior motive but the obvious? It makes no sense to me how you concluded it had anything to do with ANY stance on helmet laws.

The point, since I have to spell it out, is to wear your safety gear. All of it. Purchase safety gear that is comfortable and don't skimp on it. In that last story it was not just Helmets he did not wear. Thats my point. Laws or not. I never even brought up helmet laws myself. That was someone else.

My point here was to encourage safety by choice. And it was obvious we had a few new riders here on the board lately from a lot of posts about new bikes.

Is it piss on me day?

I was simply confused since I am not a rider and wanted to be informed.

[Hasty8]

Have to agree with you there.

The government should stick to how you affect others. The example given was stupid too. Suicide isn't illegal. Assisted-suicide is. And it isn't illegal for the person commiting the suicide but for the person assisting.

But riding without safety helmet or in any fashion that is dangerous does effect others and that's the point I am trying to make.

Take the gentleman in Cphil's story. He wasn't wearing leathers or a helemt if I read the story right and due to his own personal negligence his son is now without a father, his wife is without a husband and his parents had to bury their son, which is probably the worst thing ever.

Also consider the immense cost insurance wise that we have to spend due to others negligence.

My point is that failure to wear proper safety equipment effects a very wide spectrum of people regardless of whether it is legislated or not.