Yay! The Pledge of Allegiance survives!!

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

My rabbi loves this one but most will only get if they are or know anyone Jewish.

Did you hear about the dyslexic rabbi?

He kept walking around saying "Yo!"

(Oy-vey is a Yiddish word that is roughtly equivalent to the english term Oh feces.)

I love saying Oy! its such a great phrase.

and personman stop being a spelling nazi.

[personman]

I wasn't being a spelling nazi! Hell, I misspell things all the time.
I was just unsure if there was a difference between an Atheist and an Athesit?

[Hasty8]

Actually, I know what an Athiest is, but you said you were an Athesit..
What's an Athesit?

That's a typo.

[brianlojeck]

It isn't violationg the 1st ammendment because they aren't forcing her to say it. She could say the whole pledge without that part or just not say the pledge at all.

Then by that logic, why don't we remove it, and those who choose to say "under god" can do so. It's not like they are forcing you NOT to say it.

[brianlojeck]

Athiest is another form of religion or set of beliefs. Apparently it is okay to force your system on everyone else when your beliefs state that God does not exist.

No, forcing athiesm down your throat would be to make you feel like an outsider if you didn't say "one nation, there is no god, indivisible". But, of course, we wouldn't be FORCING you to say it, heck, you wouldn't even have to say it at all if you didn't want to, but it would be written that way in the officicial records.

Sound familiar?

[1stdeadeye]

I wasn't being a spelling nazi! Hell, I misspell things all the time.
I was just unsure if there was a difference between an Atheist and an Athesit?

Someone who does not believe in God and a dumbarse who does not believe in God.

[Python14]

I just don't understand why an athiest is so concerned with God. I mean, if he doesn't exsist, and you say "one nation under God", will you not die or something? I mean, it's one thing if you have to say "one nation under Odin" or "one nation under the Christian God", that's understandable....however, no one is going to not die if they say "under God".

The only people who talk more about God than religious people are athiests.

[tony3]

The real question is "Why was it added?"

It was added to appease Joseph Mcarthy. Is that the statement we want to make about our country?

What if a moslem child says "under Allah"? A Moslem-American is, after all, part of how this country IS today.

Allah is the same person as God.

[-Carnifex-]

Athiest is another form of religion or set of beliefs. Apparently it is okay to force your system on everyone else when your beliefs state that God does not exist.

Well, that is sort of what the statement in the pledge and on our money does.

[1stdeadeye]

No, forcing athiesm down your throat would be to make you feel like an outsider if you didn't say "one nation, there is no god, indivisible". But, of course, we wouldn't be FORCING you to say it, heck, you wouldn't even have to say it at all if you didn't want to, but it would be written that way in the officicial records.

Sound familiar?

I guess we should ban God Bless America next.

You have to recognize the difference between ceremony and prayer. Seriously. I love how the minority wants to use the courts to rule this country. The majority believe in God and want a Nativity, Menorah, etc.. displayed on public land that they own too, yet one ot two atiests sue claiming violation of Church and State and those 2 people can override the will of the 1000s of others in that town. Cases like that only add to animosity about the "tolerance" demands special interest groups demand. Save the lawsuits for real violations like a teacher trying to teach creationism or using the bible for history lessons. Leave the ceremonial stuff alone. A Christmas tree is not religous for God's sake.

The majority of America does not want Gay Marriages yet they are being overridden by a small part of the populace that does not feel the democratic legislative process applies to them. They can go court shopping accross the country to find a whacko enough court to give them whatever they want. **Disclaimer-I do not give a crap about gay marriage one way or another. I am outraged at how they did it. They used a body of non-elected whacko judges to create new law out of nowhere. Further that court knows they are going to be overturned by the people of Massachussets by referendum that will outlaw what they created. So they forced their decision immediatly. At least the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Stayed their decision until the Ultimate Arbitor had spoken. If the Mass Supreme court was so sure, why not await the referendum. An extra year would not have hurt. How long did the pledge case take?

[Hasty8]

I just don't understand why an athiest is so concerned with God. I mean, if he doesn't exsist, and you say "one nation under God", will you not die or something? I mean, it's one thing if you have to say "one nation under Odin" or "one nation under the Christian God", that's understandable....however, no one is going to not die if they say "under God".

The only people who talk more about God than religious people are athiests.

I'm just voicing my opinions on it. I happen to come from a very religious family (orthodox) and went to Yeshiva for several years.

I guess for me it was making that leap of faith that is inherrant in religion. I'm just not ready, or possibly willing, to believe in something that Ijust can't see. Yeah, I know. I can't see air and I believe in it. But air has other tangible effects other than seeing it.

As for talking about it, what it the harm in talking? We only learn from casual discourse. If I do not understand something about you I ask and vice versa. In hat way we learn about one another and the world around us.

And regardless of what other people here may insinuate about me here I in no way fault anyone for their religious beliefs. The times I have problems with it is when people of other religions try to get me, and society as a whole, to live in accordance with their religious belifes whether those beliefs be Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Atheist.

I can understand why the father would feel the way he did but Ithink he went about curing it the wrong way. Had he bothered to take time to speak to his child about it, he would probably have had better results.

As I said earlier. My reasons for wanting the words taken out are not founded on a religious belief, or lack of religion thereof, regardless of what some here would like to imply. My reason for wanting the words striken is akin to the fight to get the flag removed from the Alabama state buildings I believe.

It's what they represent, IMHO.

Take it or leave it, that's how Ifeel about it.

[tony3]

I SAW WE JUST SAY WHO GIVES A . I mean seriously, I have been raised a Catholic forever, still go to a catholic highschool. I have a real hard time believing all of this stuff they are feeding me. In grade school and middle school we said the pledge everyday. Hell, half the time I was half asleep at the beginning of school to even pay attention. I doubt there is many 2nd graders that even understand the pledge. I wish everyone would stop looking for fights and just relax. It is not that big of a deal. It seems to me that most atheists are just in it for a good fight.

[Hasty8]

I guess we should ban God Bless America next.

You have to recognize the difference between ceremony and prayer. Seriously. I love how the minority wants to use the courts to rule this country. The majority believe in God and want a Nativity, Menorah, etc.. displayed on public land that they own too, yet one ot two atiests sue claiming violation of Church and State and those 2 people can override the will of the 1000s of others in that town. Cases like that only add to animosity about the "tolerance" demands special interest groups demand. Save the lawsuits for real violations like a teacher trying to teach creationism or using the bible for history lessons. Leave the ceremonial stuff alone. A Christmas tree is not religous for God's sake.

The majority of America does not want Gay Marriages yet they are being overridden by a small part of the populace that does not feel the democratic legislative process applies to them. They can go court shopping accross the country to find a whacko enough court to give them whatever they want. **Disclaimer-I do not give a crap about gay marriage one way or another. I am outraged at how they did it. They used a body of non-elected whacko judges to create new law out of nowhere. Further that court knows they are going to be overturned by the people of Massachussets by referendum that will outlaw what they created. So they forced their decision immediatly. At least the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Stayed their decision until the Ultimate Arbitor had spoken. If the Mass Supreme court was so sure, why not await the referendum. An extra year would not have hurt. How long did the pledge case take?

1DE, the majority of the country did not want blacks to have civil right either yet they took it to the courts and got their rights.

The majority of the country did not want women to have the right to vote yet they won their rights thanks to a select few who fought, lead by Alice Paul.

1DE, you seem to forget a very and cruciallay important lesson.

That is that the masses do not work to uplift the few. It is in fact the few or the one who strives to uplift the masses.

I cannot cultivate penicillin yet I use it.

I cannot pasteurize milk yet I drink it.

I cannot process rax crude into refined gas yet I live by it.

You have to have faith in the system and you are currently condeming it while the process is still taking place. The women fighting for their rights to vote broke the law and eventually they won. Same with the blacks. This is just yet another clear demonstration of the power of our government.

While I agree iwht you that the majority of the country is opposed I popose that these actions today will help pave the way to them eventually gaining the right they so deserve.

[hunkers down behind a desk anticipating the oncoming diatribe]

I also need to adress this issue only because you missed an often tiny yet immensely significant point. The majority believe in God and want a Nativity, Menorah, etc.. displayed on public land that they own too,The thing with having a nativity scene in a public office building or on their grounds is that they must also allows for other faiths to represent as well. Essentially it all boilds down to an "all or none" scenario which, personally, is how I think it ought to be.

Take the judge in Albama I believe it was, and his monument to the ten commandments. He was ordered to remove it because he did not allow others to represent their faiths as well. The thing was a monster.

We have a judge over here in the local courts who keeps a small set of the 10 cmdts on his bench. Over the years it has grown to include a tiny torah scroll, a muslim cresent moon and quite a few items of the various asian faiths we have here as well. As a joke one of the atheists got him a small plaque that reads "space reserved for those with out faith". It was done very tongue in cheek and everyone got a god laugh about it.

religion is great when it is used as a guide point. Giving us an idea of where to go.

when people consider their religious texts as the literal translated word of god and try to force others to their views then it becomes a probelm.

Just my two cents.

But then again, I may be wrong.

[brianlojeck]

The only people who talk more about God than religious people are athiests.

This thread WAS started by someone who claimed "the good guys won". How would you like to be labeled "the bad guys" in casual conversation?

As to who will or will not die if we do/don't say "under god", then why don't we remove it? It's not like you won't die if you don't say it, is it?

The phrase was added for racist, evil reasons (see Joseph McCarthy), and doesn't belong.

[Hasty8]

I SAW WE JUST SAY WHO GIVES A . I mean seriously, I have been raised a Catholic forever, still go to a catholic highschool. I have a real hard time believing all of this stuff they are feeding me. In grade school and middle school we said the pledge everyday. Hell, half the time I was half asleep at the beginning of school to even pay attention. I doubt there is many 2nd graders that even understand the pledge. I wish everyone would stop looking for fights and just relax. It is not that big of a deal. It seems to me that most atheists are just in it for a good fight.

I have to agree with you on this. Parents seem more willing to talk to a judg and the five oclock news team then to their own child.