Firearm information needed!

[Mister Sinister]

Well its great that you can handle a large gun like that first off but alot of people cant. When you say 50 BE do you mean the 50 AE (Action Express)? The caliber of pistol isnt nearly has important as him being able to operate it under duress. If a home defence gun is what we are talking about. Having to remember to put a semiauto in battery is harder than just leaving a dual action revolver on an empty chamber and pulling the trigger. Why was the 40 s+w developed? the 10mm shoots the exact same caliber and grain of slug... Just the cartridge body is 3 tenths of an inch longer. Why cause when the FBI tried to train their agents on the 10mm they had flinching problems from the recoil so they collaborated with S+W to make a milder cartridge that all felt comfortable shooting.

[Mister Sinister]

i must say, but some people will shoot better w/ a higher caliber to start. i know i did. I did forget about people being afraid of it.....it is kinda un-natural for something in you hand to be making something explode and send a projectile down range at close to 1000fps.

While it may be true that some may start off fine with a large caliber there are those that dont. But i have never heard of anyone not being able to start smaller and work up from there.

[RTGuy86]

yes i did mean AE. i suggested the .45 becuase of the stopping power it has. I have heard stories from police officers about some dopped up crack head trying to attack a officer or a civilian and either the officer or the civilian trying to defend themselves w/ a 9mm, it passed straight through the target, and the man didnt even stop. if it were to have been a 45 it would more than likely have stopped him. that and the likely hood of it going through the target and hitting something you dont want it to hit, say family memeber or pet or somethign to that extent is a smaller % w/ a .45 than w/ a 9mm or a .40 S&W. but you are right again if he cant shoot the 45 accuratly he may end up hiting the non-intended target any way.....you are right for some one new to firearms it would be easier to use a revolver.

[Steelrat]

So is he going to be in a home defense situation or combat? You got big problems if your facing mulitple armed attackers wearing body armour. I do agree for home defence nothing beats the intimidation or utility of a shotgun. Not only will it work for home defence it can be used in many sporting situtions.

SO, do you prepare for the worst case scenario, or the best case? Me, I prepare for the worst. You think body armor is hard for criminals to get? Think again. When the stuff hits the fan, its too late to think "Wow, I sure wish I had bought a gun with a larger magazine."

Avoid revolvers. Once you have shot the first 5-6 cartidges, its hard to reload under stress. Semiautos are easier to reload.

When I was poo-pooing .45s, I meant the Colt Model 1911 and reproductions. Its got whats called a "single action" trigger. That means that the hammer needs to be manually cocked back before you can fire it the first time, after which the motion of the slide recocks it after each shot. There is nothing wrong with .45 caliber rounds themselves, as they are hard hitting. I just dont think a single action is best for an inexperienced shooter. If you dont practice with it all the time, I guarantee that the first time you need it you'll just start pulling the trigger without pulling the hammer back first, and then you die. If you like .45, get a .45 sig or glock, preferable the sig.

BUT, having said all that, the shotgun is about the best home defense weapon you can buy. Pistol rounds actually have quite a bit of penetration, so you will have bullets punching into adjoining rooms and such, which is bad. A shotgun has limited penetration, and since the buckshot pattern is so much larger than a single .45 round, its easier to hit a target in a stressful situation. If you dont want a pump, get a semiautomatic shotgun. You can buy all sorts of neat folding stocks and such to keep it nice and handy, plus there are reduced recoil rounds avialable.

[nippinout]

Glocks are nice because you don't have to fumble with anything. All the safeties are built into the trigger.

Just make sure you all take safety classes and get some experience at the range.

Besides home defense, going to the range is lots of fun.

[Mister Sinister]

SO, do you prepare for the worst case scenario, or the best case? Me, I prepare for the worst. You think body armor is hard for criminals to get?
Avoid revolvers. Once you have shot the first 5-6 cartidges, its hard to reload under stress. Semiautos are easier to reload.

Ok I agree it is best to prepare for worst case scenario. But using a gun at all is worst case scenario. It should be your last choice. Yes semi autos are easier to reload. But when I go to check the suspiscous noise in my house I dont grab extra magazines or ammo to take with me. Your not going to take the time to put together an arsenal. If I had that much time to prepare I wouldnt take a handgun. I know it is easy for criminals to get body armour I remember the bank robbery in LA in 1997. My point is though if someone is coming after you in body armour with a gun they are looking for a fight. This is not just some cat burglar looking to steal your stereo. This is a situation your average home owner will not be prepared for whether he has 6 shots or 15 or a howitzer.

[hAppy]

hmm so if i want a glock or a sig, how do i find the company to get one?
as in are they Glock and Sign companies themself, such as S&W and H&K? or are there S&W glocks

and magazines, any gun can take any size mag? ill probably get a 15 rd or something, or at least have it off to the side.

a shotgun will probably be my next choice. my dad was in the vietnam army, and for some reason that was the first gun on his mind. so after i know enough about handguns we'll move to shotgun talk.

Thanks!

[desslock]

If ur looking for something for home defense, a mossberg shotgun is something to think about. You can find em for around $200 at any local wal mart or kmart. Look for the smaller pump tactical shotguns. They are clones of what most police have in their cruisers. Holds 7 in the tube, about 20" something long. Easy to clean and mantain small so can be stored in a corner, under a bed etc. Nice thing about shotguns is that at close range you really dont need to aim, for example in a hallway with you at 1 end and Mr. burgler at the other, a few shots in his general direction will send double aught buck his way. While you may or may not kill him you will certainley convince him he should leave. Also if by some stroke of dumb fate you miss him completly, I am willing to bet after hearing a shotgun go off (indoors no less, damn that has to be painfull to the ears) Mr. intruder will prob go out the way he came in, you might have to clean up a yellow puddle where he was standing . Also you can use rock salt shells or bean bag shot, these are less than lethal means of defending your family/home. I personally have the first 3 rounds of my mossie loaded with beanbag shot, the rest of the shells are double aught. I figure I will give whoever 3 chances to leave, hopefully after taking 3 beanbag shots to the chest he will be leaving in an ambulance, but if drugs, satan, gamma rays; whatever have given Mr. Burgler a superhuman threshold to pain then the other 4 shellls of double aught should convience him to leave. Sorry for the mini novel but its Sat morning im at work and bored out of my goard

[RRfireblade]

Well I'll just say this,

As a firearm owner and certified gun smith for over 10 years,the fact the you think you 'need' a gun because everyone else has one,really scares and concerns me a great deal. That mentality is one of the biggest problems we gun rights supporters have to deal with and is likely the WORST reason to purchase a firearm.(besides illegal use) Sorry if that sounds harsh.

That being said,if you feel you MUST own one,I suggest a short barrel revolver in the like of .38 caliber for personal defense.Ultimately the simplest and most reliable form of handgun,especially for inexperienced users.Point and shoot('specially in the dark),ease of fire(no magazines,no action to jam) and long term reliablilty(can be left loaded for years and still fire relibly) and the ability to be left loaded and uncocked in a mode safer than most semi autos makes it the ideal choice for home defense.

Beyond that, I recommend time and plenty of it,at a shooting range,in gun saftey classes and in some sort of tactical/defense class before I suggest you go any farther.

Good luck and PLEASE think and be safe.

Jay.

[Mister Sinister]

SIG/Sauer, Glock, Smith+Wesson, Heckler+Koch are all brand names. Each has there own proprietary designs. To get a SIG you will have to buy it a SIG. But like paintball guns there are many offshoots. Like the Colt 1911 pistol you can still buy one from Colt but there are other manufacturers making the same gun, companies like Auto-Ordinance and Para-Ordinance and Llama. Think of it like spyders and spyder clones same gun basically but minor cosmetic differences sometimes huge differnces in quality. As a side note 15 round magazines are no longer produced. Federal law has mandated the maximum to 10 rounds for all calibers. You can still get the high capacity mags just they are going to be ones that were made before the ban. They command a premium price depending on the gun they can get a little pricey. Due to size limitations and design differences you cant get just any size magazine you want. Like for an 1911 colt due to the fact that the magazine it uses is single row it comes with a standard 7 round mag. You can buy 10 rd mags for them but they hang below the grip of the gun.

[hAppy]

ah so i learned a bit more about mags

is the glock 27 good? its nice and compact, http://glock.com/g27.htm, and from what i read its the same as any glock except more compact

are the sigs and glocks easy to get a hold of at stores? or each store carries this and that, and some dont have any?

if you guys think i know "enough" about handguns now, we can move onto shotguns. so... arent those the cannons that ll blow your shoulders off?!?!

[trains are bad]

First you need a shotgun. With a shotgun you have home defense, critter control and some hunting covered. My recommentdation: Remington 870 combo. The one that comes with 2 barrels. 12 or 20 guage.

If you want a defensive handgun get either a double action revolver or a simple auto like a glock or a Springfield XD. Get at least .38 special or .40 s&w respectively.

You may want a rifle. Get a good bolt gun, in a popular caliber like .223. DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT SKIMP ON GLASS!!!! A good rifle is only as good as it's scope. I reccomend leaupold scopes, the poor man's caddilac of riflescopes, as they have an unbeatable rep and a lifetime warrenty. BUY NOTHING LESS!

then you need......

you will soon discover that you can never have enough guns.

[Steelrat]

I forgot that all magazines are limited to 10 rounds now, unless the mags were made pre-ban.

RRfireblade brings up an interesting point. Semiautos jam, revolvers dont. I just think the chance of a jam is worth the increased magazine capacity. Use good ammo, keep the gun working well, and your chance of a jam should be greatly minimized.

[Steelrat]

ah so i learned a bit more about mags

is the glock 27 good? its nice and compact, http://glock.com/g27.htm, and from what i read its the same as any glock except more compact

are the sigs and glocks easy to get a hold of at stores? or each store carries this and that, and some dont have any?

if you guys think i know "enough" about handguns now, we can move onto shotguns. so... arent those the cannons that ll blow your shoulders off?!?!

The ease of buying a firearm depends on the state you are in. Most gun stores carry the big names, such as sig, glock, hk, smith and wesson, etc etc. Have you ever even shot a handgun? Id say that should be the first step, along with an NRA firearms safety course.

SHotguns have some recoil, but if you shoot it right its not bad. I put about 200 rounds through a Remington 870 about a month ago, no problem.

[hAppy]

trains are bad - how much is the remington 870 combo? so scopes are a must for rifles? ill remember this name leaupold leaupold leaupold leaupold. are there other calibers for rifles or is it just that other cal are not necessary?

Steelrat - i only shot a .22 cal rifle at boy scout camp once, i only put bout 30 rounds through it. i think ill try to find a range where i can try out different guns. what do i need to start? like do i need any licenses or permits?

you guys all support going to shoot my first handgun with a .40 cal right? i dont want to blow my wrists off

thanks for the help guys