Toy towing question (trucks)

[bornl33t]

anyone watch the resale on a dodge? yeah, that's what I though they have good resale until the new model comes out and then you can'ty get rid of them. That's cause they are cool but not durable. 2500hd chevy or gmc. thats all the towning you need

[billybob_81067]

Actually I'd recommend a Ford over both Dodge and Chevy, but since you're planning on going with either a Dodge or Chevy do like others have said and get a 3/4 ton dodge with the Cummins (everyone notice the correct spelling... not Cummings) turbo diesel. They are very dependable and long lasting and get good mileage as well...

I would steer clear of the new Duramax a.k.a. Duracrap engine due to their aluminum heads on a cast block!!! (GM engineer who thunk of that was a )

[joez]

THe aluminum heads are more than fine. Why you think they arent i dont know.

You say you are looking to tow roughly 6K pounds. If you buy a 1/2 ton with a rating of say, 7200, that 7200 is with the tow vehicle EMPTY. Everything you add (passengers, coolers, FUEL, ect) decreases that tow rating. You would be putting a lot of stress on the puny 1/2 ton running gear, not to mention the brakes.

Any 3/4 ton diesel will do you just fine. And to whoever said the GM 6.5 TD is less powerful than the cummins, yeah, maybee todays cummins. Compared to the powerstroke of those years and the cummins, it was actually pretty much equal in power and tow ratings. Not to mention gets better fuel economy due to the IDI.

Like Uncle Phill said, the V-8's will act and drive more like a gasser. Higher governed RPM's, torque and HP higher in the RPM band, and they wont lug as good. The Inline cummins will be a bit slower, and shift quite a bit sooner, but its the only motor in the Big 3 that can be loaded to the maximum GCVWR and do a zero throtle launch without stalling.

Its all personal preference, go test drive the trucks and see what you like, and buy that.

[billybob_81067]

THe aluminum heads are more than fine. Why you think they arent i dont know.

Hmm... let's see, maybe the fact that the headgaskets on diesels go through hell already due to the higher compression ratio as compared to a gas engine. Then add to that the boost pressure of a turbo, making even MORE compression. Finally add in GM's wonderful aluminum heads with their different heat expansion ratio than the cast block and Voila... you have a headgasket that get's ground into pulp.

Even bi-metal gasser engines have problems with headgaskets and they've got no where near the compression ratio that diesels have. Sure, making sure both the heads and block are smooth as a baby's butt, and a graphite coated gasket will help, but still the headgasket WILL go at some time or other...

[Chris42050]

I like fords the best also. But with your choices you gotta decide how much towing you are going to be doing. Turbo Diesels suck on acceleration. They are like a 3 cylinder Geo. But they kick butt on gas and towing. I would rather drive a V-8.

[PyRo]

anyone watch the resale on a dodge? yeah, that's what I though they have good resale until the new model comes out and then you can'ty get rid of them. That's cause they are cool but not durable. 2500hd chevy or gmc. thats all the towning you need

I tied looking at the doge trucks a while ago. Early 90's disesls were close to 10,000 and this was a couple years ago. Dodge trucks are the hardest to find used, they go very quickly, and at higher prices then somthing simlar from gm or ford..

[cphilip]

Really, ford using cummings motors? Didn't know that.

They are. Have for some time. You can have your choice of one in the 550 or higher I think it is. Powerstroke, Detroit or a Cummins. And not the little one Dodge buys either. The big boy.

[bornl33t]

I tied looking at the doge trucks a while ago. Early 90's disesls were close to 10,000 and this was a couple years ago. Dodge trucks are the hardest to find used, they go very quickly, and at higher prices then somthing simlar from gm or ford..

that's cause A working one is rare. When vehicls aren't classics and aren't new then they got to be rare to fetch a good price.

[notcreative]

All i got to say is go with a 1990-1999 Chevy 454 that has enough Ponies to Pull anything you want to Pull and you can only go to 1999 cuz that was the last year they made the 454 in chevy you can still custom order them but it is a waste of Money.

[Lohman446]

Really, ford using cummings motors? Didn't know that.

Actually I think you will find that Ford owns a controlling interest in Cummins and Chrysler holds exclusive rights to use it in light duty trucks. Try to sort that one out someday.

I will concur with the others on this one, kick up to a 2500 and you will be much happier. Personally I think a reasonable choice would be the new Silverado with a 6.0 in it. Sure you don't have the pure power of a diesel but you also don't have any of hte diesel issues. I recommend you avoid a diesel like the plague unless you are planning on driving it 25 miles or more every time you start it. Diesels run at high operating temperatures, and short drives will kill these engines. If you are looking for occassional or even once a week hauls I think you would be very happy with the GM 2500. I have a problem with the Ford 5.4? (thats not sounding right in displacement, the bigger 8 Ford offers) engine. There is a timing chain on the backside of the engine - and it has proven to be a problem. The proper way to change this involves lifting the body from the frame, as the engine does not fit through the hood. The 6.0 will give you better versatility, decent mileage (compared to the big blocks) and easier ownership (compared to a diesel). Sure it does not have all the power, but you should find it adequate.

PS - I loved powerstroke engines until the new ones. Variabe valve timing by changes to the cylinder head while driving sounded like a bad idea when Saab was playing with it - it has proven to be a very bad idea in practice. BTW... I will also tell you that the people I know who work on diesel engines exclusively (I don't specialize that much) all own Cummins in the Dodges, I assume there is a reason. Avoid the old Chevy diesels, they were just not to the quality that Ford and Dodge offered. I think Chevy screwed up personally with Duramax diesels.. they should have had Catepillar (which they own a large share in) build the diesels for the truck. I would love to see the Cat. logo around the Chevy one... I'd buy it just for that.

[cphilip]

Actually I think you will find that Ford owns a controlling interest in Cummins and Chrysler holds exclusive rights to use it in light duty trucks. Try to sort that one out someday.

.

No and No...

Ford at one time did own a large interest in Cummins. But it was a purchase to keep them afloat and later it was sold back to them under that arrangement. They long ago sold it back to the current owners who are made up of Employee's of Cummings. They do however still have an agreement to purchase large engines for their big trucks.

GM has a similar agreement but its not exclusive and its not for light duty. Its for heavy duty.

Both Ford and Chevy have agreements for their lighter heavy duty truck diesels with thier own subsidiaries. Fords is with Navistar/International for thier Powerstroke and GM's is with Isuzu (wich they own) for the Duramax engine. Ford has its own plants building its new Torqshift Transmission while GM contracted with Allison to build a GM specific version of one of thier transmissions for mating to the Duramax.

Ford has now solved early problems with the new 6.0 Powerstroke which turned out to mostly be programing issues. Do not buy a first year run but reports of the latest ones are all hunky dory now. And the new transmission continues to show a leap of improvement over the older design in the 7.3L's.

GM continues to work on some issues with the Duramax including some issues with the Alison tranny which they designed and probably should have left to Alison to do... And the heads which again... they should have left alone to Isuzu. But reported fixes are continuing to seem adequate.

Again, as is the case with so many new models, don't buy till its been a few years. These things take time. But in the end they do get it right.

[Lohman446]

When met with superior knowledge there is only one way to deal with it

[joez]

Hmm... let's see, maybe the fact that the headgaskets on diesels go through hell already due to the higher compression ratio as compared to a gas engine. Then add to that the boost pressure of a turbo, making even MORE compression. Finally add in GM's wonderful aluminum heads with their different heat expansion ratio than the cast block and Voila... you have a headgasket that get's ground into pulp.

Even bi-metal gasser engines have problems with headgaskets and they've got no where near the compression ratio that diesels have. Sure, making sure both the heads and block are smooth as a baby's butt, and a graphite coated gasket will help, but still the headgasket WILL go at some time or other...

Go do some reasearch, and use that reasearch before you post.

Isuzu has been using the aluminum head on an iron block for a long time. People said the same thing you are right now when they came out. Guess what, it never happened. They are an international industry leader in both sales and technology, with some of the best inline diesels built. Hmm, with head gaskets being ground into pulp, how would they manage to accomplish this. Oh, wait, there are no head gasket problems, nor have they ever had any. When you dont use crap aluminum, there is no problem. Especially when you use o-ringed head gaskets.

And guess who builds the Duramax, thats right, Isuzu.

I recommend you avoid a diesel like the plague unless you are planning on driving it 25 miles or more every time you start it. Diesels run at high operating temperatures, and short drives will kill these engines. If you are looking for occassional or even once a week hauls I think you would be very happy with the GM 2500. I have a problem with the Ford 5.4? (thats not sounding right in displacement, the bigger 8 Ford offers) engine. There is a timing chain on the backside of the engine - and it has proven to be a problem. The proper way to change this involves lifting the body from the frame, as the engine does not fit through the hood. The 6.0 will give you better versatility, decent mileage (compared to the big blocks) and easier ownership (compared to a diesel). Sure it does not have all the power, but you should find it adequate.

WRONG. Diesel do not have a higher opperating temperature. They have a higher EGT, thats it. They acutally run at a lower opperating temperature because they are more efficeint in transfering fuel into power, not wasted heat like a gas motor. This is why they warm up so slowly in the winter. All this does is create an inconvenience to the person driving it because it takes a little longer to warm up and provide full heat. I daily drive my diesel to work a whopping 6 miles away. Throughout the whole winter i always had heat as long as i let it warm up until it kicked out of high idle in the morning. It wouldnt reach full operating temperature, but thats fine.

Driving short distances will not kill the motor either. It is no worse for a diesel than it is for a gasser.

[mcveighr]

I agree with joez and cphillip.