Well its official, im going to iraq, AGAIN

[skife]

Semper Fi Devildog.

[Automaggot68]

Remember...a .223 will go right through your bunker, but the paintball wont.
Always pop out of different spots, never be a jack in the box !
Godspeed man, take care of yourself.
Ignore those of whom who bash our troops, you know, the ones who hate bush, and hate our troops-But say they support the troops. I've seen more then seven of my buddies go to that dry, hot country so far, and five of them are still alive.
It's horrible that people have stooped so low as to compare this with vietnam, and our president to hitler. You stay safe man, and with hope, you wont be needed there in due time.
Again, Stay safe, you'll be in my prayers and my thoughts everytime I pass MCRD, here in San Diego.

[e mag]

Ignore those of whom who bash our troops, you know, the ones who hate bush, and hate our troops-But say they support the troops.

Not supporting bush automatically makes you not support our troops?

[devildog]

Not supporting bush automatically makes you not support our troops?

not supporting the war makes you not support the troops.

anyway, thanks again for the good wishes, ill be in yuma arizona for a few weeks to do some training, i might be able to hop on the internet there, we'll see. if not, im not leaving till sept, so ill get a week of leave, ill talk to you guys then.

[e mag]

not supporting the war makes you not support the troops.

I would have to disagree. I support every person I know who is in the army and hope they make it back safe. However, I do not support the war because i feel it hasnt made me or the country any safer. my friends who are over there dont want to be, and from your first post it would seem you dont want to go either.

[Automaggot68]

Not supporting bush automatically makes you not support our troops?

Did you read my post?
Read it again man. It's there, you even quoted it.

[Warewolf50]

Good luck and come home safe.

And thank you for what u are doing.

[Butterfingers]

I would have to disagree. I support every person I know who is in the army and hope they make it back safe. However, I do not support the war because i feel it hasnt made me or the country any safer. my friends who are over there dont want to be, and from your first post it would seem you dont want to go either.

Political support for the war I think goes hand in hand with support for our troops. Lack of political support often leads to the lack of funding or conflicts in the leadership chain that adversely effect our troops directly.

We didnt "loose" vietnam because our military was incapable of handling the situation. We "lost" vietnam becuse some hippies with nothing else better to do decided to make alot of noise based on one sided information on a situation many couldent even fathom the complexity of.

If we lost 5000 people in the first few hours of a military operation in an attempt to liberate a country what would happen?

What about a situation where the entire economic status of the country was shifted to military production?

Today people would loose thier positions and the president would be impeached! There would be congressional hearings left and right and there would be mass protests across the nation!

But back in the 1940's it was ok. Becuse the American people knew or chose to put trust in thier leadership. Back then people knew we were killing civilians by the droves! They accepted it as a necessary sacrifice.

To this day we celebrate D-Day as one of the most significant events in history. WWII is deescribed using words like, honor, liberation, bravery, sacrifice... never murder, imperialist, war monger, as the gulf war is being described as today.

The general theme is however the same... liberation of a country from a brutal dictator that is hostile to the United States and is guilty of genocide and the killing of his own people.

This is part of the reason why we see terrorism today. Terrorists know that shaking the will of the american people will force upon us the loss of a military situation that we are more that capable of handling. Activities like kidnapping that has little tactical significance poses a big political issue. Terrorists can defeat us not becuse our military is weak it is because they know our minds are weak.

It is in my opinion unfortunate that such sinister acts of terrorism is SO effective in shaking a stable democratic process as evidenced in Madrid Spain.

Please I emplore you when you go to vote on election day dont do it because you "hate" a candidate do it becuse you think the other candiate can do a better job.

[Automaggot68]

Political support for the war I think goes hand in hand with support for our troops. Lack of political support often leads to the lack of funding or conflicts in the leadership chain that adversely effect our troops directly.

We didnt "loose" vietnam because our military was incapable of handling the situation. We "lost" vietnam becuse some hippies with nothing else better to do decided to make alot of noise based on one sided information on a situation many couldent even fathom the complexity of.

If we lost 5000 people in the first few hours of a military operation in an attempt to liberate a country what would happen?

What about a situation where the entire economic status of the country was shifted to military production?

Today people would loose thier positions and the president would be impeached! There would be congressional hearings left and right and there would be mass protests across the nation!

But back in the 1940's it was ok. Becuse the American people knew or chose to put trust in thier leadership. Back then people knew we were killing civilians by the droves! They accepted it as a necessary sacrifice.

To this day we celebrate D-Day as one of the most significant events in history. WWII is deescribed using words like, honor, liberation, bravery, sacrifice... never murder, imperialist, war monger, as the gulf war is being described as today.

The general theme is however the same... liberation of a country from a brutal dictator that is hostile to the United States and is guilty of genocide and the killing of his own people.

This is part of the reason why we see terrorism today. Terrorists know that shaking the will of the american people will force upon us the loss of a military situation that we are more that capable of handling. Activities like kidnapping that has little tactical significance poses a big political issue. Terrorists can defeat us not becuse our military is weak it is because they know our minds are weak.

It is in my opinion unfortunate that such sinister acts of terrorism is SO effective in shaking a stable democratic process as evidenced in Madrid Spain.

Please I emplore you when you go to vote on election day dont do it because you "hate" a candidate do it becuse you think the other candiate can do a better job.

Butterfingers, that was once of THE best posts I've seen regarding this situation, Good job. It was so good, I saved it to my documents.
Intelligence is t3h pwn.

[TeamNausea]

Agreed butterfingers GREAT post

[teufelhunden]

DevilDog, be sure to get us an APO. I'll try to get out a care package-- it'll be at about the same time I'm getting acclimated to college, so it may not be soon, but it will come. I promise.

[Cryer]

Butterfingers

[Konigballer]

i think there would have been similar backlash reactions in WW2 like there was in Vietnam by the american public if 1940's media technology, and saturation had been as advanced and prevelant as it was with the news durring the Vietnam era.

you say that "back then people knew we were killing civilians by the droves", and could accept it.
The american people did'nt KNOW anything, they might read casualty numbers in the newspapers but thats all they ever where, numbers. The government controlled media was'nt showing the american public pictures of dead german civilians killed by our bombs or even our own casualties, except very rarely, not like in Vietnam were a family could sit down to dinner by the TV and see the effects of a US napalm strike against a third world vietnamese village.

That famous picture of the little naked vietnamese girl runnning from her burning village with napalm burns on her seared into peoples minds because they were'nt looking at a statistic reported in the newspaper or over the radio. They saw people. That automatically saps the will of the american public when they dont have that kind of phycological distance from their enemy that was built up and nurtured durring WW2. When the horror of war is given a face instead of being masked by very tightly regulated media outlets, like we had in WW2 and before, it is bound to effect a civilian populace thats always been so far removed from war and is so naive about it like the american public.

Was the american populace of the WW2 years really so much tougher than us now in regards to willpower or where they just grossly ignorant about what they were supporting or what was happening on the battlefield? Constant media exposure on the war in Vietnam stripped away much of this ignorance to the effects of war, but replaced it with a weaker collective will to endure it.

its a double edged sword. On one had, the american public is'nt as willing to be blindly lead into war as before, on the other hand though, now we loose a handfull of guys in one little villiage and all of a sudden the entire war is in jeperody because the media will plaster their names and faces everywhere and the public's knees will get wobbly when they see images of dead american boys that could just as well be their sons, brothers, fathers, etc, and not just names in a casualty list. That indecisiveness back home really can suck for the guys in the field.

[logamus]

devildog, i hear thats a delightful part of iraq. keep your head down and come home in one piece brutha. if you make it through b-town say hello to my bros in the 1st cav.

[RamboPreacher]

It's too bad that some peopl ehav eto take a sincere thread like this one (initialy) and turn it to a political debate.

Butterfingers - great post! I agree, and though your post was spawned by another posters lack of support for this particular individuals (thread originator) post, well said.

Others You may say that you support the troops (and don't have a political stand that supports the effort that places the troops where they are), but in fact your actions (derived by your posts) do not say the same thing.

devildog - My prayers are with you and continue for you and the rest of us that are serving our country and fellow AMERICANS, whether they agree with you or not. I applaud you.