Here is a good read

[Automaggin2]

and that is when i leave the country

Your the type of person that would leave the country during a draft. I will stand there and give you the finger as you depart.

[brianlojeck]

Re: the Typical Californian comment.

(I look back over my comment) I don't seem to have ended with "love ya' babe...", and at no point did I ask for arugala or avocado.

I knew I would receive flak for this but that is okay because I am uniquely qualified to make this statement as I was born there, live there and currently protect the county in which the before mentioned took place.

Not for nothing, Pickle, but every single American who isn't sitting back on their fat lazy *** collecting a welfare check is doing something for this country. Even if all I do is keep my company network running so we can contribute to the GNP I've done something for this country.

Hell, I've even seen hacking attempts at my firewall that seemed to orginate from Iran. They failed. Maybe I just helped to foil some kind of terrorist money laundering scheme, or at least stopped a foreign kid from getting his hands on American porn.

I'm not going to try to compare that to being under fire, or running into a burning building, or doing triage in King/Drew Medical Center in the heart of ****hole, CA, but lets please not pretend that soldiers are the only worthwhile people on the face of the planet.

Each of us is doing a job, doing something we found we can make some money at, and maybe get some satisfaction to boot. Neither of us would be doing what we do if it didn't pay our bills and support our families, if we did we'd be really crappy husbands.

does not appear to love his country at all.

1: Love is a two-way street, friend. Find me one Senator, Congressmen, Supreme Court Justice, or President who gives a rats *** about me or my family, and I'l show them all kinds of love and respect. Our government is full of self-serving, self-indulgent yahoos who have given up on the idea of of/by/for and use their position for their own benefit first and foremost. I realize it would be silly to expect the governent to become an altruistic group, doing what's best for the people, so all I ask for is the next best thing, let me be as self-serving as they are, level the playing field a bit.

It can be argued that is same thing.

If you truly believe that the people derive their power from the government, and not the other way around... Last time I looked, the government worked for US. I will defend a person. I will not defend an ideology. Philosophy is not worth killing for, money is not worth killing for.

That is entirely different than protecting your country.

[/quote]

If turning back a (theoretical) invader on american soil isn't defending the country, then what is?

[Jeffy-CanCon]

...No president would choose to enforce. endorse this jsut casue it would pretty much gurentee them defeat in he next election. ...

A President in his second and final term might sign such a law, as he is not running for reelection. Also, some people have called for some sort of national plan to get the American people directly and personally involved in the War on Terrorism, so that they would take it more seriously. Conscription would do that.

Hmm, that's crazy.
I dont see how they could do that.. we would have an army of like fricking 150 million.. Thats not exaggeration either.. We could take over the world, what fun is that?

That's ridiculous exageration. The total US population as of 2004 is 294 Million, and the population in the proposed conscription target group is 35.5 M, of which no more than 1/4 would be serving at any time, in both the military and non-military services. You're off by about 1500%.

There are a few countries out there that require military service. I dont think its that bad of an idea. I think we would see a major change in the U.S. if this was ever passed. I'm talking about discipline and respect, something many Americans are lacking.

...

There are over 50 countries that have conscription. Throughout the Cold War, all the NATO countries had conscription except the USA, Canada, the UK and Iceland.

But does it create public discipline and respect? Ask your fellow Americans who grew up during the Draft period, 1941-1974. Do Hippies and Beatniks and rock & rollers exemplify those behaviours?


For those of you debating what it means to love your country, I suggest that disagreeing with or disrespecting politicians shows MORE LOVE and concern for your republic than blind obedience to the will of the "leadership".


Some relevant thoughts from famous Americans:

"Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
- Mark Twain

"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done."
- Thomas Jefferson

"I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty."
-John D. Rockefeller

"Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
-P.J. O'Rourke

[NJPaint]

I hate Rumpsfeld's guts, but he was right when he wanted to make the US military smaller, sleaker and more effective. Basically instead of having an army you just have really really really damn good soldiers and then you don't need a huge standing army. Well, this works for EVERYTHING except occupying a country, which he got screwed over by when we went into Iraq. We don't have an exceptionally large army and I personally don't think we need it. I like the idea of having the right forces to do the right job and not have a massive army to take over countries with.


HOWEVER, that having been said, I am 100% for a national service/draft. I am 18 and just leaving high school putting me at the "highest risk" for being drafted. However, if we can't have a professional army full of the best trained and the best equiped soldiers, the entire country should have the burden of supporting the army, not just the lower classes. They are providing for the common defense of the United States and just because one has money or one's parents have money doesn't mean that they shouldn't have to serve like everyone else.


I don't want to see it come to a draft. I don't want to go to war. I don't want to continue this idiotic approach to Foreign Affairs. But if it comes to it, I would proudly serve in the US military. This is why I respect and admire every person in the armed forces regardless of who is in the oval office.