Ethanol: The future is now.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • CaptaiN_JacK
    will get you high tonight
    • Jan 2003
    • 947

    #1

    Ethanol: The future is now.

    I got into a discussion with a family freind who is the manager of Exol, a company that produces ethanol, which is a gasoline substitute made from corn. This is what I learned:

    When Exol was looking for investors back in 1996-7, they sold the stock for $0.50 a share to anybody who farmed. It opened in 1998 as a 25 million gallon a year production facility. Farmers hauled corn to Exol and then they refined it into ethanol, DDG's, and co2. The ethanol they sold all over the US, the DDG's (a feed for cattle) they sold all over the US, and the co2 they sold to the Miller Brewing Company to carbonate beer. As of now, the stock is worth $4.00. If you invested $10,000 back in 1997, you would have nearly $80,000 today.

    There are many myths about ethanol, which is the main reason it is so unpopular. The first is that modern cars that aren't made specifically for ethanol use will break down if run on ethanol. Completely false. Most modern cars can run safely even on 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline. Exol has a suburban and a van that run on 100% ethanol without having any revisions done to the engines. This little fact will save you a lot of money if your local coop gas station has an "E-85 for $0.85" deal like ours has every once in a while. Ethanol actually helps clean your engine, and it also is an anti-freeze that prevents your gas lines from freezing in the winter.

    The next myth is that it hurts the oil industry. Somewhat false. Oil companies get paid by the gov't to put ethanol in their gas. This helps the ethanol industry because the oil industry isn't so pissed about having mandatory 10% ethanol in gasoline laws.

    Another myth is that ethanol is more expensive than gasoline. The price of ethanol is about the same as gas, sometimes highers, but it could be lower too. The good thing about ethanol is that it is incredibly consistant unlike oil. Oil prices go higher with civil unrest in Nigeria and Iraq, but the price of corn and ethanol is relatively consistant because the corn comes straight from America's heartland and unless the corn industry suffers catastrophic losses one year, ethanol prices will remain about the same.

    So what is the point of this thread exactly? To disple common myths about ethanol, and to also inform AO of how much potential ethanol has for returning high profits to stockholders. Invest in ethanol companies while their stock prices are still low, because unless something catastrophic happens to the ethanol industry, stock prices will just keep skyrocketing.

    War is peace

    Freedom is slavery

    Ignorance is strength

  • PyRo
    President Bioloaf inc.
    • Dec 2000
    • 10186

    #2
    Try running an old road runner on ethanol, I bet it won't go over too well

    Comment

    • skife
      Unregistered User
      • Feb 2003
      • 2769

      #3
      you know, i wonder how well it would do with a high compression motor




      [21:00] < FunkTehChillinMunky > I've got a Warped Sportz Dark Talon

      Comment

      • Lohman446
        Useful posts: 7
        • Jun 2003
        • 9315

        #4
        Good question on the high compression oil idea. I know there are some substitutes for diesel fuel (cooking oil I have heard) that seem to be working pretty well in some places. I beleive that most modern gas engines can cope with ethanol, I don't know how well vehicles designed for leaded fuel would do.
        "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

        Comment

        • Army
          Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

          • Oct 2000
          • 5785

          #5
          Ethanol in gas in nothing new. In fact, ethanol (actually alcohol) was the gas used until right before WWII, when refinement of gasoline was perfected. Up until the mid '70's, you could still get "Ethyl" (gas-alcohol mix) at the gas station. The main reason ethanol isn't used anymore, was the amount of supply available from the few refineries that distilled it. Gasoline was made so abundant, by so many refineries, that the market for ethanol dried up...but not completely. Many farms use ethanol for it's clean burning attributes, and slightly less cost in maintenance.

          Captain is right, you can run any ICE on ethanol with no ill effects on parts or performance. Hey, Top Alcohol drag racing runs on refined ehtanol, and they use standard factory engine blocks....(with just one or two performance thingy's added on for those 250mph 1/4 mile runs ).

          Comment

          • adam68c
            Registered User
            • May 2001
            • 155

            #6
            Sugar dominates corn as a ethanol producer. Maybe Hawaii's last 3 remaining sugar plantations will have a chance. Hope so. Keep the lands in agricultre. We dont want any more developement or more people moving here espcially Kauai.

            Comment

            • skife
              Unregistered User
              • Feb 2003
              • 2769

              #7
              Originally posted by Army
              Ethanol in gas in nothing new. In fact, ethanol (actually alcohol) was the gas used until right before WWII, when refinement of gasoline was perfected. Up until the mid '70's, you could still get "Ethyl" (gas-alcohol mix) at the gas station. The main reason ethanol isn't used anymore, was the amount of supply available from the few refineries that distilled it. Gasoline was made so abundant, by so many refineries, that the market for ethanol dried up...but not completely. Many farms use ethanol for it's clean burning attributes, and slightly less cost in maintenance.

              Captain is right, you can run any ICE on ethanol with no ill effects on parts or performance. Hey, Top Alcohol drag racing runs on refined ehtanol, and they use standard factory engine blocks....(with just one or two performance thingy's added on for those 250mph 1/4 mile runs ).



              I'm pretty sure that they dont use factory engine blocks.
              most of them use a huge block 600CUi < the biggest factory engine made right now i believe is a chevrolet ZZ572 big block.




              [21:00] < FunkTehChillinMunky > I've got a Warped Sportz Dark Talon

              Comment

              • Southpaw
                Registered User
                • Aug 2003
                • 534

                #8
                hmmm So where are we going to grow all this corn?? I just do not think that we can easly grow corn as fast as we would need to make ethnol a viable fuel sorce over 10%-20% as a blend.
                I think there for, I am I think. am I?

                Comment

                • aaron_mag
                  Registered User
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 1375

                  #9
                  Sounds awesome to me. Reduces our dependency on foriegn oil and gives money to farmers in the heartland. Is there a catch? My Taurus has a label that says it can run on Ethanol. I'm all for it.

                  ULE Body Level 10 Automag intelliframe + retrovalve

                  Comment

                  • Fixion
                    Registered User
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 815

                    #10
                    Originally posted by skife
                    you know, i wonder how well it would do with a high compression motor
                    its used as a racing fuel. It has a very high octane number (around 118ish) so it does well in high compression engines. A better question may be, how does it do in low compression engines?

                    Ehtanol has less calories per liter than gasoline and toluene. So in theory you wouldn't get as good mileage with ethanol as you get with the current gasoline/ethanol mixes at the pump that we have today. But it is much cleaner to burn than gasoline, which is .

                    I think that using ethanol in a low compression engine would get poor results, but using it in racing engines and other very high compression engines is a very good idea. Its probably cheaper than Premium gas at a gas station.
                    .

                    Comment

                    • Deep Sixx
                      Registered User
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 345

                      #11
                      The manual for my truck ('93 Blazer w/ 4.3 Vortec V6) specifically says not to use ethanol blended fuels.

                      sixx
                      Henry
                      Storm: Naughty
                      Paint Storm - Empire - Evil

                      Comment

                      • SlartyBartFast
                        The Flying Scotsman
                        • Jun 2002
                        • 2940

                        #12
                        Ethanol and Ethanol are great alternatives to Gasoline. All engines can burn some ethanol/methanol. But it gets problematic at 10-15%.

                        Many/most new cars can take 85% methanol/ethanol.

                        For diesel, you can either use waste or virgin vegetable oil and mix it with your diesel, or you can even burn pure vegetable oil. Another option is to brew biodiesel from vegetable or animal fats/oil.

                        In Europe, diesle is already a minimum 5-10% biodiesel.

                        Comment

                        • cphilip
                          Former Moderator

                          • Jun 2026
                          • 16216

                          #13


                          AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                          cphilip.com

                          Comment

                          • BlackVCG
                            Grubby Owner

                            • Oct 2000
                            • 4956

                            #14
                            All of these alternate/renewable energy sources seem like a great idea at the surface, but they aren't the cure-all solution everyone has been looking for.

                            After the oil-crisis of '73, the government told us that we would be able to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and use biomass derived fuels. At this time it was ethyl alcohol (Ethanol). This was great news for the midwestern farmers and it looked as though the old corn belts would be revived. The problems first discovered was fuel system corrosion caused by the alcohol. Newer vehicles don't have this problem, but we aren't going to see every pump start filling E-85 and Grandma from down the street fill up her '70 Fairlane with it.

                            Another problem with alcohol is that it basically absorbs limitless amounts of water. This is bad because most vehicles from the early 90's and older have metal tanks which easily form condensation on the inside if the tank isn't 100% full.

                            The solution in the 70's was to use MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether). This did not absorb water like alcohol, but it did absorb some and low and behold there were spills, which would leak the fuel into ground water sources. "What's this bad tasting water? Why it's MTBE ridden ground water!" Out with MTBE.

                            The other thing talked about a lot is electrical powered vehicles. In the grand scheme of things, if you look at the efficiencies of the power plant that is producing the electricity, transmission line efficiency, electric motor efficiency and other losses here and there you have an overall efficiency less than an internal combustion vehicle.

                            Bio-Diesel is a viable solution that overall looks pretty good, but the main problem with it is its freezing point being the same as water. This requires the vehicle to either have fuel warmers, a mix of regular diesel to lower the freezing point or anti-gel added to every tank of fuel. It produces much less harmful emissions than regular diesel, smells like french fries and comes from renewable resources. It does produce about the same amount of NOx emissions, which produces photochemical smog, but it's debated upon whether NOx is really all that harmful as it sounds.

                            Technology will change and alternative fuel sources will advance, but don't plan on investing in one or another and next week going to the gas station to see every pump with E-85 and biodiesel, or 10 or more years for that matter.
                            My Feedback

                            Comment

                            • CaptaiN_JacK
                              will get you high tonight
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 947

                              #15
                              As for the question "where will we get all this corn?" the answer is more complicated. As of right now with all the newer corn hybrids pumping out more bushels/acre than ever before, it's not too noticable that ethanol is eating up the midwest's corn. When more ethanol plants being completed though, the effects will be more noticable. One solution is Brazil. MILLIONS of acres of farmland are being opened yearly. The only reason Brazil hasn't had too much of an impact on the farming industry in the US is because they still have problems with transporting the corn to ports (the roads are really bad). The farmland opening up in Brazil has a foot or more of topsoil, whereas Midwest soil has inches. Another problem with Brazil is some of their corn is reportedly stolen, in other words, they are using stolen strains of hybrid corn, and that isn't seen as very consistant with countries that buy their corn.

                              War is peace

                              Freedom is slavery

                              Ignorance is strength

                              Comment

                              Working...