Smart Car gets US DOT approval

[Lohman446]

As if they don't.

Americans act proud to have everything bigger than everybody else, when in fact its rarely a good thing.

For example, can explain one practical use for the Hummer H2?

Can you explain to me the practical purpose of shooting balls of paint at each other? The practical purpose of playing video games? The practical purposes of non-reproductive relationships? The pracitical purposes of recreational fishing? The practical purposes of recreational skiiing? The practical purposes of entertainment television or radio?

You can't. The funny thing is I have seldom met anyone I don't like, wherever they were from, but I think of Canadians as egotistical, self-righteous, pot smoking, people. But in reality, are you? I mean I choose to drive a car over an SUV, does that mean Im not American? THe point is, I would do better not to stereotype an entire country so would you.

[SlartyBartFast]

With that said, I wouldn't actually buy one, seeing as I could pick up a nicely loaded Focus (or equivalent sized small North American or Asian car) for around the same price. I also wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of, say, a North American transport truck in one.

And there-in lies the biggest problem. The cost.

If North American legislators would get off their back ends and force the oil industry to sell the same high grade diesel available in Europe, we'd be able to have diesel versions of many common cars.

As far as getting into an accident, well even the largest of vehicles isn't going to fare well against a transport truck.

[cphilip]

You must mean Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? thats the only difference between some of US fuels and European Fuels..

...And its already here.... Voluntary at this time but its mandated starting in 2006 for all Diesel fuels. And so far many areas do have it already.

See this Map for current refiners that currently produce ULSD. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/retrofit/fuelsmap.htm

But its completely in effect as of 2006. And thats for onroad Diesel. Offroad is phasing in at some point thereafter. EPA regs.

But its already a done deal in the USA. Its just a matter of lowering the Sulfur content is all. And its currently down to 30 -15 PPM here anyway. ULSD is defined as no higher than 15ppm. Some older offroad Diesel is as high as 500ppm though so thats the next target. But no ones using that in cars or on the road trucks.

[SlartyBartFast]

You must mean Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel? thats the only difference between some of US fuels and European Fuels.

Low sulfur is certainly part of it. But I remember reading recently that the US and Canada also sells some of the lowest quality diesel fuel in the world (while reading up on the ethanol thread).

One of the modifications required for the Smart car was a detector to shut down the engine when there was too much water accumulated.

But I don't know the specifics of the quality issues. I do remember that although our standards are approaching European ones, the diesel that will be sold in a couple years time still won't be good enough for most of the new generation diesel engines being used in European cars.

[breg]

Some dude here on base actually has one. The thing is really strange. I mean how can you take a vehicle seriously when you lay down next to it and you are taller than the vehicle is long...
Wait, I got and IDEA- make the seating tandem, remove the roof, and put bigger tires on it. Oh wait that sounds a lot like a four wheeler...

[cphilip]

Low sulfur is certainly part of it. But I remember reading recently that the US and Canada also sells some of the lowest quality diesel fuel in the world (while reading up on the ethanol thread).

One of the modifications required for the Smart car was a detector to shut down the engine when there was too much water accumulated.

But I don't know the specifics of the quality issues. I do remember that although our standards are approaching European ones, the diesel that will be sold in a couple years time still won't be good enough for most of the new generation diesel engines being used in European cars.

Well... I know of no significant difference in the fuels other than that. The Cetane ratings are almost identical from what they use for design of their engines. Many of them are already here in some form or another. It would make no sense to design a vehicle for anything outside of the norm. And every single engine over in Europe will run perfectly on any Diesel fuel here. As evidenced by the ones already imported and the many truck engines already imported. So I think your confused on that. Or someone mislead you. There are indeed higher cetane rated fuels for various purposes. Like marine fuel and aviation fuels... But the one used in cars and trucks is pretty universal. You can bring any car you want over here right now and today and it will run just fine. Even on higher Sulfur fuel. That matters not at all. There is no mechanical change needed for this. The main reason they are not here is marketing and expense. They don't want to spend the money on DOT and EPA certification if they do not think they will sell very many. And lately they are starting to feel the market in the USA is changing and becoming more open to Diesel. But the cost of Gas is still not high enough for most Americans to consider a Diesel. Like it is in Europe. But soon it may indeed be. So I suspect you will see more and more coming into the market. But its not fuel issues doing it outside of cost.

[SlartyBartFast]

Many of them are already here in some form or another. It would make no sense to design a vehicle for anything outside of the norm.

Some are, yes. But many aren't. Designing for the "norm" doesn't mean designing for North America.

But, in many instances it's that the engines simply aren't homologated for North America (which is expensive), but there are other issues. Many of which may be particulate related:

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0208_focus/

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...8/article.html

http://www.gearwheelsmag.co.uk/archive/diesel_reviews_feature_06.htm

But I think disgustingly dirty distribution and storage is a big problem.

It would be nice to see more of those. Would be nice for all the larger SUV to be offered with diesel as well. Should be the lawin some cases for vehicles above a certain size. Nothing seems more stupid than the great big motor homes with gasoline engines.

Bring on the BioDiesel.

[cphilip]

Some are, yes. But many aren't. Designing for the "norm" doesn't mean designing for North America.

But, in many instances it's that the engines simply aren't homologated for North America (which is expensive), but there are other issues. Many of which may be particulate related:

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/wagon/112_0208_focus/

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...8/article.html

http://www.gearwheelsmag.co.uk/archive/diesel_reviews_feature_06.htm

But I think disgustingly dirty distribution and storage is a big problem.

It would be nice to see more of those. Would be nice for all the larger SUV to be offered with diesel as well. Should be the lawin some cases for vehicles above a certain size. Nothing seems more stupid than the great big motor homes with gasoline engines.

Bring on the BioDiesel.

Again, there is no difference in those vehicles needs for fuels to run efficiently. They will run fine just as they are. There is a difference in Low Sulfur fuel availability. But other than that.... ALL of the European models can be run just as well on the fuel available here in the USA. They might not meet emissions because of the sulfur content but they will run. There is no need to redesign for this market. There is a need to supply it with low sulfur fuel to meet emissions rather than strap on more emmissions controls that would hamper the efficient operation of those motors. Thats the only real remaining issue to phase in. And mostly its now just demand for them in the US. But there is no design changes that are going to need to be done outside of particulate matter at this time. But particulate matter issues exist here and there. I could go over there and buy every and all of them and bring them in here and run them on any pump Diesel there is and they would run without fail. However they would polute more than US EPA is going to allow unless they are run on Low Sulfur Fuels. I don't know were you get the idea that Diesels over there are somehow completely different beasts. They are not. They all work the same. But no company wants to affix restrictive emmissions stuff on them to satisfy the US market when the issue could be, and is being, solved by Low Sulfur fuels. And no company wants to invest a lot of money into the US market unless that and the demands for them are met. Its not a matter of retooling them. Its a matter of public reception and preception. And timing. Particulate matter and O2 issues are in existence in all countries. And those have to be delt with eventualy. But besides those, Diesel is cleaner in ALL remaining categories compaired to Gasoline Engines. And more efficient too.

[doc_Zox]

i drive a 2002 VW 1.8T Beetle 25 miles in, 25 miles out of Washingtoon DC, 5 daze a week.
Top Speed is ~ 70-80 on a good day, on a bad day its a 15 mile start/stop crawl to the 40 mph Clara Barton parkway.
Every 350 miles, or just about once a week, i fill up on 25 dollars of fuel

52 x 25 = 1300 dollars of fuel a year to drive to work

The Beetle gets ~25 mpg
a 50mpg Smart Car would save me 700 dollars a year in fuel costs.
We could also fit twice the vehicles in a parking garage.

The Beetle usually sits all weekend while our 15mpg Jeep GC carts the family about.

80 percent of the traffic i see commuting to DC is one driver in a sedan or SUV.
We can do better than this.

[SlartyBartFast]

The Beetle usually sits all weekend while our 15mpg Jeep GC carts the family about.

Which is probably quite legitimate. As long as it's being used to its capacity.

The more difficult calculation (and the one that is most important) is pasenger miles to the gallon.

If a car gets 30mpg, but only transports 1 person (30 pass. miles/gallon) it's more wasteful than a giant SUV carrying four people at 10mpg (40 pass. miles/gallon).