What is up with the EU

[TheDuelist]

Iraq possessed quite a bit of French equipment during Desert Storm. It didn't last very long and didn't stand up well against our stuff. Personally the only thing about the French that would worry me would be the French Foreign Legion and that is composed mostly of foreigners not French citizens.

[drg]

You mean outdated French aircraft, which were grossly outnumbered and many of which were destroyed in the ground. Iraq's ground forces were mostly outdated Russian equipment, not French. None of it stood up, not surprisingly, to more modern equipment fielded by coalition forces, which included France.

Which brings up another point ... people say France has had no military victories in modern times, but that's false. French forces participated in Gulf War I as well as Afghanistan, and were part of the winning coalition both times. They also participated in the NATO air campaign over Bosnia.

[PyRo]

The Germans would have to have an army for that. The only western european countries capable of defending themselves these days are the UK and Spain.

What was it about six years it took Hitlar to build Germanys last massive army? They could build up a huge military and tell the UN it was for research. By the time the U.N. got around to doing anything France would already be taken over at which point Germany would be sanctioned.

[PyRo]

If the United States continues to become a service only economy, our country's fate is going to be a sad one. We need to prevent the movement of industry to other countries by actually reestablishing a strong import tariff to protect domestic workers so that businesses cannot outsource anymore.

Otherwise the United States is going to end up in bad shape when countries like China do finally capitalize on the fact that they have a large population of very intelligent/capable people and and the means to become world powers.

On an added note: That guy from the U.N. can shut up.

The early states did all have their own currencies, they all had their own government. The federal government was extremely week and was headed by I believe three men.

What is your plan for preventing industry from moving offshore? An import tariff isn’t feasible because then other countries will tax our good and no one gets anywhere. The only way to keep industry on our shores is if people suddenly become patriotic and buy American made goods or we start cutting down on production costs. Cutting production costs means doing away with unions (I’m not even going to get started on the complete scam some unions are), then we start cutting salaries, health benefits, vacation time, safety equipment, and other things to cut costs. Then we can lower prices to compete with other countries but that isn’t going to happen.
Did you ever wonder what the service code on the side of your computer is for? When you call Dell for tech support within 30 days of buying it you will get routed to the American tech support. After thirty days your call will go to India. This is so that people don’t get annoyed during the first thirty days of owning the computer and return it. Only after the period where you can receive a refund has passed do they give you someone who doesn’t speak English. This is coming from a dell employee.

[Can_Opener]

You just kinda proved my first point man, the European Union resembles an early United States, with more time it can grow to having immense power once their leadership actually becomes more involved in the governing of their countries instead of just their economic alliance they have right now. States sovereignty was part of the early United States as well, until we realized that a strong Federal government was needed to maintain control over the States (creating the unified currency, federal laws, etc.).

Maybe a tariff is a bad idea, but there has to be some sort of consequence for outsourcing...

Also, I wouldn't know about the Dell thing, never owned one because pre-built computers are garbage, want something done right, gotta do it yourself.

[oldsoldier]

Thats not completely true. No we didn't join the war because of what was happening with the Jews but we did know something was going on. Its another example of how isolationism will get you in trouble.

We as a NATION didnt find out about the "final solution" till the end of the war. Higher ups in the military knew of it earlier in the war, but not when we entered it. HEll, we wanted nothing to do with it at the beginning. The Japanese forced our hand. That isnt to say that we wouldnt have entered it eventually...there are a million what if scenarios for that. Our military, at the beginning of WWII, was ranked like 46th in the world, in industrialized nations. We took for granted our distance from the rest of the world, seeing isolationism (as you well pointed out) as part of our national defense plan. Obviously, it failed.
Good points, all, but, rememer, the EU is a UNION OF NATIONS. USA is one country. We sitll win!!!

[FFF]

[PyRo]

as for the army thing... yes the US is the only super power left, but does that give it the right to bully everyone else, UN included (in one post one of you guys seemed proud of that)
or bully countries where there's $$$ to do (what is the US doing about korea? where the governement is not only working on a nuke project, but almost worst of all: is starving half it's own population)

and now one last thing that to me doesn't make the US the best place it says it is :

what is it with the American voting system (and I' not talking about
punching holes in a postcard size piece of paper) is math no longer tough in
class?
no one seems to realize that with the actual system a US president could be
elected with just over 25% of votes! (a candidate could loose by 100% half
the states and win by 50% the others, making it a global 25%) Of course
those 25% are just mathematical, but then again, 4 years ago, president Bush
was elected without winning the popular vote•

neither the democrats nor the republicans seem to want to do anything about
it as it makes campaigning easier. with the actual system democrats don't
have to worry about new york and republicans about texas. But I'm sure there
are democrats in texas and republicans in new york that would like to have
their issues delta with•

wouldn't that be true democracy


anyhow, as i have said, having spent half my life in the us, having wed there, i still can, and want to say God Bless America


fff (for franck the french frog)

Who do we bully? We go after people who want to start trouble and deserve it. Afghanistan harbored the terrorists that killed thousands of Americans. Iraq violated it’s peace agreement. Columbia asked for our help and supplies a huge portion of drugs to the U.S. Who do we bully that doesn’t deserve it?
What is the U.S. doing in Korea? What are our options? Korea is holding the world hostage they refuse to halt productions unless we pay them off. We cannot give them what they want so would you like us to invade? The issue is hardly being overlooked and is being worked on whether or not any progress is being made is up to the Korean government. Yes they are starving half of their own population but again what would you like us to do about it? It is the corrupt government that is running the country into the ground then blaming the United States. If they stopped their unnecessary weapons programs and spend that money on food they could probably feed their population.
The electoral college system is in place for several reasons and I cannot fully explain it here go do some research on it. There are two big reasons for it. Most importantly was states rights which was a huge issue when the constitution was being drawn up since during that period each state was basically it’s own country with it’s own currency, taxes, etc, the federal government had very little power. This way it was believed the big states couldn’t bully the little states as much. The second reason was that the founding fathers didn’t trust the voting public and feared that a tyrant would gain power and create a dictatorship.
You are right however America is not a democracy, it is a form of democracy known as a republic. I am not sure if there is any democracy in existence today. Athens was a democracy when every citizen went to vote on every issue. Could you imagnine having to go to the polls for every decision made? You would be spending hours every week voting. With roughly 50% of America voting now how many people do you think would vote if we had to go spend six hours a week at the polls and many more reading through documents to see what everything was. Every American would have to be a lawyer. It just wouldn’t work eventually the system would collapse. Don’t forget we are Americans, we are fat, lazy, and stubborn, we are going to keep our electoral collage. :)

[FFF]

you didn't get my point

i have nothing against the electoral college, the US being federal i understand the necessity of it
it's the "winner takes all" that's the problem (ie the 25% i mentioned)

[Albinonewt]

The EU is quickly becoming the world's economic leader.

end of story.

Average unemployment is 10% and illegal immigrationa nd culture wars are destroying the EU.

Other than that, I live in constant fear of their collective greatness.

[Albinonewt]

This isn't necessarily true. How many of the EU nations rely solely on US military technology? Quite a few have developed excellent weapons systems on their own. Some of the best fighters are being built in Europe and even Russia. Firearms technology is strong there. There armor sstems are quite good. To say they need our support is true but I wouldn't say we hold almost all the cards. The nations of the EU are extremely capable of handling themselves. Lucky for us we have a partnership in NATO.

I agree with you concerning the money we donate to the nations damage by the tsunami. Andy McNab said it the best while conducting training in South Africa with the British SAS. He said we create a world of takers instead of showing nations how to support themselves. Everytime we "give" them something they will come back expecting more when what we gave them runs out.

Too bad none of them have the force projection to occupy my back yard...

[Albinonewt]

China is where we need to be looking closely, the people there are realizing how much better off they are with capitalism, and the potential for them to quickly become the world's greatest economic power is bigger than anyone will really give them credit for.

---Fred

I was with you until here.

China is not going to be the super power that people think it will be. Not for a long long long time, if ever. The Chinese structure needs a LOT more reform then to simply start saying their Capitalists.

[Albinonewt]

You just kinda proved my first point man, the European Union resembles an early United States, with more time it can grow to having immense power once their leadership actually becomes more involved in the governing of their countries instead of just their economic alliance they have right now. States sovereignty was part of the early United States as well, until we realized that a strong Federal government was needed to maintain control over the States (creating the unified currency, federal laws, etc.).

No it doesn't resemble the early US at all.

The colonies were't a heavily regulated over inflated bueracracy with thousands of years of nationalistic pride. The european nations were.

Plus, the American colonies banded together because it was the only way to throw off an oppressor. The EU is banding together for no such clearly defined impreative. These nations aren't working together to achieve self determiniation, they're trying to get rid of it.

[Albinonewt]

i need to come back to some points

i speak as a frenchman having lived half my life in the states

"Let me just say I love France and it's the best. I'm just here because life is so much better" :)

allthough many great things are invented in th US (like the automag...) not everything comes from there. i'm thiking about every day products like the CD, DVD, credit card and phone pins, pastorized everything... (things are often invented elsewhere, marketed in and for the US, it being such a big market, then asia comes in, makes more and often better of those products and sends them out to both the EU and the US)

Yes, not EVERYTHING is invented here. But ours is basically the only economy on earth that really produces drastic innovation. Which is why almost all medicines are invented here.

as for the army thing... yes the US is the only super power left, but does that give it the right to bully everyone else, UN included (in one post one of you guys seemed proud of that) or bully countries where there's $$$ to do (what is the US doing about korea? where the governement is not only working on a nuke project, but almost worst of all: is starving half it's own population)

We bullied who now? We challenged the UN to step up and enforce it's resolutions. It didn't. There was no bullying, simply our determined will and the UN's inability to enforce it's own resolutions. I think the fact that France, Germany, and Co. sat out only demonstrates that there was no bullying.

And if France wants North Korea fixed so bad why don't they go do something about it?


He lost the popular cote by about half the margain he lost California. The electoral college did exactly what it's supposed to do, prevent populous states from ruling the elections completely.

Most people want to leave it in place because it works.

[-Carnifex-]

I liked when Fred said that the Euro is unstable compared to the dollar.