umm... hot chick thread?

[fcpchop]

yep. and i dont really miss it.

I mean no offense by this but are you gay? Just out of curiosity, its cool if you are.

[WingMan13]

Uh oh. This threads on its way out too...

[Target Practice]

It strikes me as odd that AO, a place that touts equality, regardless of team, creed, division, marker, age....

Would have a thread soley dedicated to the objectification of women, when on AO, doing the same in paintball is so looked down upon.

Whatever the reason the thread is gone, this should be the CORRECT reason.

EDIT: grammar

[SpecialBlend2786]

I mean no offense by this but are you gay? Just out of curiosity, its cool if you are.

not at all. I'm not gay. I even posted a few times over there.

I just failed to see the point of a thread like that. There are other places on the internet. Plus, i find many of the posts to be pretty demeaning...

EDIT: see the post above me haha, thats an even better reason

[brianlojeck]

that thread does not objectify women any more then watching a basketball game objectifies men.

1: both involve participants who are physically gifted
2: both involve participants who have spent time and effort making the most of those gifts
3: both involve parties who are making a living demonstrating those gifts.

RAPE objectifies women. A consensual photo shoot, where the model gets paid and does so voluntarily and with full knowledge and appreciation of her situation does not.

Are we really that stupid as a race/species/gender that looking at a picture of an attractive woman will remove our ability to appreicate those who are smart, funny, athletic, or otherwise gifted? I'm not... but maybe I'm the only one...

I don't personaly care if the thread is closed (AGD's site, AGD's rules), but lets be real people... that's a pretty stupid reason to close it.

edit-
There's more similarities:

4: both involve the participants PURELY for the physical gifts they possess. Does anyone care, while viewing her pictures, that the model is putting herself through medical school? no. Does anyone care that the basketball player has an intense, burning interest in sociology? no. How many of us wish the athletes would just shut up? how many of us care what the model has to say? pretty much works both ways as far as I can see...

[trevorjk]

that thread does not objectify women any more then watching a basketball game objectifies men.

1: both involve participants who are physically gifted
2: both involve participants who have spent time and effort making the most of those gifts
3: both involve parties who are making a living demonstrating those gifts.

RAPE objectifies women. A consensual photo shoot, where the model gets paid and does so voluntarily and with full knowledge and appreciation of her situation does not.

Are we really that stupid as a race/species/gender that looking at a picture of an attractive woman will remove our ability to appreicate those who are smart, funny, athletic, or otherwise gifted? I'm not... but maybe I'm the only one...

I don't personaly care if the thread is closed (AGD's site, AGD's rules), but lets be real people... that's a pretty stupid reason to close it.

why must people think with comman sense in mind

qouted for truth... even though i rarely checked out that thread or posted in it

[CrimsonTurkey]

To tell you the truth, you probably are the only one.

[tsc]

that thread does not objectify women any more then watching a basketball game objectifies men.

1: both involve participants who are physically gifted
2: both involve participants who have spent time and effort making the most of those gifts
3: both involve parties who are making a living demonstrating those gifts.

(snip)

Are we really that stupid as a race/species/gender that looking at a picture of an attractive woman will remove our ability to appreicate those who are smart, funny, athletic, or otherwise gifted? I'm not... but maybe I'm the only one...

(snip) Does anyone care that the basketball player has an intense, burning interest in sociology? no. How many of us wish the athletes would just shut up? how many of us care what the model has to say? pretty much works both ways as far as I can see...

If you can tell me where they play naked basketball, I'd be much obliged.

Do you even know what objectification means? It means to present or regard something as an object.

I don't care if they're putting themselves through medical school, until there's full bios printed next to every picture not including the words "turn ons include.."

The women in those photo shoots are being presented as an object of lust, based on their bodies. Most people who watch sports are 1) male and 2) fans of the athletic ability, not the althete's body. Standing in front of a camera != a 3' vertical jump. Sports are about abilities. Sports illustrated swimsuit editions are about boobies.

And yes, when you view some women as objects, it does taint your perceptions of other women, glaringly or not.

I will not adress the comment which likens rape, a violent crime based on a need to control, to this subject.

I can already tell there's no use arguing, but what can I say, I'm in the mood to hit my head against a brick wall.

[Target Practice]

If you can tell me where they play naked basketball, I'd be much obliged.

Do you even know what objectification means? It means to present or regard something as an object.

I don't care if they're putting themselves through medical school, until there's full bios printed next to every picture not including the words "turn ons include.."

The women in those photo shoots are being presented as an object of lust, based on their bodies. Most people who watch sports are 1) male and 2) fans of the athletic ability, not the althete's body. Standing in front of a camera != a 3' vertical jump. Sports are about abilities. Sports illustrated swimsuit editions are about boobies.

And yes, when you view some women as objects, it does taint your perceptions of other women, glaringly or not.

I will not adress the comment which likens rape, a violent crime based on a need to control, to this subject.

I can already tell there's no use arguing, but what can I say, I'm in the mood to hit my head against a brick wall.

Preach on!

[SpecialBlend2786]

If you can tell me where they play naked basketball, I'd be much obliged.

Do you even know what objectification means? It means to present or regard something as an object.

I don't care if they're putting themselves through medical school, until there's full bios printed next to every picture not including the words "turn ons include.."

The women in those photo shoots are being presented as an object of lust, based on their bodies. Most people who watch sports are 1) male and 2) fans of the athletic ability, not the althete's body. Standing in front of a camera != a 3' vertical jump. Sports are about abilities. Sports illustrated swimsuit editions are about boobies.

And yes, when you view some women as objects, it does taint your perceptions of other women, glaringly or not.

I will not adress the comment which likens rape, a violent crime based on a need to control, to this subject.

I can already tell there's no use arguing, but what can I say, I'm in the mood to hit my head against a brick wall.

nice post.

[brianlojeck]

What the heck, I've got nothing better to do. ;-) Let's keep it civil, shall we folks?

If you can tell me where they play naked basketball, I'd be much obliged.

I'm sure they do somewhere (although the average nudist is not someone I'd like to see nude), but my point was a bit different.

Do you even know what objectification means? It means to present or regard something as an object.

I prefer to think of it as ignoring the essential humanity of a person and only making use of their convenient features. To some degree we all "objectify" each other, such as when you take your car to a mechanic and refuse to engage in any small-talk because you don't care about his kids, or you harrass the tech support guy at work and make him miserable until he fixes your computer. Perhaps I could have better stated my point as "that thread didn't objectify women any more so then we objectify each other as part of our daily lives.", but that's not quite as smooth off the tongue.

I don't care if they're putting themselves through medical school, until there's full bios printed next to every picture not including the words "turn ons include.."

OK, then lets try this. This is a completely honest question, I'm not trying to egg you on. Would you rather a young, attractive woman work 40 hour weeks as a waitress to put herself through school, or do a couple of photoshoots a month to do the same thing? Thus get better grades, sleep more, have time to study, etc... (and yes, I realize most of these models are not paying for medical school.)

as for the "turn ons", how is that different then the insipid "so what kind of girl are you looking for" cosmo asks the latest "sexiest man of the year" candidate?

The women in those photo shoots are being presented as an object of lust, based on their bodies. Most people who watch sports are 1) male and 2) fans of the athletic ability,

my point was, the fans of either have no interest in anything other then the spectical, be it the sport or the figure. An athlete is nothing more then "that guy who plays sports", just like the model is nothing more then "that pretty woman". He was born with ability, and has to practice, diet, exercise etc..., she was born with beauty and has to diet and exercise, as well as take classes and practice being a good model (yes, there is a difference...) None of us care what Shaq thinks about (political issue here), any more then we care about what Carmella Decesare thinks when watching them engaged in their respective jobs

not the althete's body.

so a big portion of Derek Jeter posters are not being sold to young women who don't know the rules of baseball? ;-)

And yes, when you view some women as objects, it does taint your perceptions of other women, glaringly or not.

You presume to know me very well. I'll use my wife as an example here. If I "read" a maxim, and see a pretty woman in a bikini, that doesn't make my wife stop being smarter then me, doesn't make her any less attractive to me, and doesn't make me any less happy to be with her. It doesn't make me disrespectful or cause me to look down on my female co-workers, so how does it taint me? If I didn't worry when my wife started finding reasons to drive past Wil Smith's "Bad Boys II" poster, why should she worry about me?

I will not adress the comment which likens rape, a violent crime based on a need to control, to this subject.

I didn't LIKEN them, I DIFFERENTIATED them. I'll reiterate. Rape objectifies the victim, making her into an object. the photo shoot is a job, just like the rest of us have. One should be punishable by death, the other is a job, just like the rest of us have.

I can already tell there's no use arguing, but what can I say, I'm in the mood to hit my head against a brick wall.

similarly, I like the taste of mortar. ;-)

[Lohman446]

OK, then lets try this. This is a completely honest question, I'm not trying to egg you on. Would you rather a young, attractive woman work 40 hour weeks as a waitress to put herself through school, or do a couple of photoshoots a month to do the same thing? Thus get better grades, sleep more, have time to study, etc... (and yes, I realize most of these models are not paying for medical school.)

as for the "turn ons", how is that different then the insipid "so what kind of girl are you looking for" cosmo asks the latest "sexiest man of the year" candidate?

Would it be easier to say yes it did objectify women if I took all negativity out of it? What if I was to the point that I said I didn't care what it did as long as those who were doing it were consenting adults? We get too worried about defending things. Its rather obvious they do objectify women. One does not have to make the jump to it being wrong.

Its like this. Someone asks you if paintball hurts. You immediatly try to find a way to answer that question no. Lets be honest, it hurts. Does that make it less enjoyable to play? Not a chance, I think it adds to the fun. Same can be said of objectifying women. Hmm.. umm, yeh - don't take the pain idea and objectifying women and try to look into it too far unless of course your a woman and into that kind of thing .

[tsc]

What the heck, I've got nothing better to do. ;-) Let's keep it civil, shall we folks?



I'm sure they do somewhere (although the average nudist is not someone I'd like to see nude), but my point was a bit different.



1)I prefer to think of it as ignoring the essential humanity of a person and only making use of their convenient features. To some degree we all "objectify" each other, such as when you take your car to a mechanic and refuse to engage in any small-talk because you don't care about his kids, or you harrass the tech support guy at work and make him miserable until he fixes your computer. Perhaps I could have better stated my point as "that thread didn't objectify women any more so then we objectify each other as part of our daily lives.", but that's not quite as smooth off the tongue.



2)OK, then lets try this. This is a completely honest question, I'm not trying to egg you on. Would you rather a young, attractive woman work 40 hour weeks as a waitress to put herself through school, or do a couple of photoshoots a month to do the same thing? Thus get better grades, sleep more, have time to study, etc... (and yes, I realize most of these models are not paying for medical school.)

[b]3)[/3]as for the "turn ons", how is that different then the insipid "so what kind of girl are you looking for" cosmo asks the latest "sexiest man of the year" candidate?



my point was, the fans of either have no interest in anything other then the spectical, be it the sport or the figure. An athlete is nothing more then "that guy who plays sports", just like the model is nothing more then "that pretty woman". He was born with ability, and has to practice, diet, exercise etc..., she was born with beauty and has to diet and exercise, as well as take classes and practice being a good model (yes, there is a difference...) None of us care what Shaq thinks about (political issue here), any more then we care about what Carmella Decesare thinks when watching them engaged in their respective jobs


[b]4)[b]so a big portion of Derek Jeter posters are not being sold to young women who don't know the rules of baseball? ;-)



You presume to know me very well. I'll use my wife as an example here. If I "read" a maxim, and see a pretty woman in a bikini, that doesn't make my wife stop being smarter then me, doesn't make her any less attractive to me, and doesn't make me any less happy to be with her. It doesn't make me disrespectful or cause me to look down on my female co-workers, so how does it taint me? If I didn't worry when my wife started finding reasons to drive past Wil Smith's "Bad Boys II" poster, why should she worry about me?


similarly, I like the taste of mortar. ;-)

1) Ignore the humanity? So....make into an object? Don't worry if it's degrading, it's only model.

2) Strawman, brianlojeck. Brianlojeck, strawman. But to take the bait, I'd prefer she work 40 hours a week. Firstly, it gives something back to the community, be it economically or spiritually or what have you. Second, it'll make someone quite thankful that they have worked their butt off to get where they are. Free rides enable you to take things for granted.

3)You, too, presume to know me to well. I feel that cosmo and the like are a mark on the face of womanhood, and that how they treat/feel about men ("LOL men are so stupid, it's wacky." ) is utterly shameful. But, I seem to be the minority in that (and in this, it seems, but then agian I don't have testicles...).

4) Of course! People always oogle. But those posters also go to people who like the player. You do not see Vida Guerra posters in preteen girl's rooms because they think she's a good role model

Commited relationships are another beast entirely. But you look at the vast majority of AO, and you see teenagers, or early-mid 20's college students. Then you say "Hey, we're all about girls in the sport, but here's a thread dedicated entirely to looking at people versus listening to them." Yes, I find that kind of predjudice in this sport, and I work at a paintball store. (Most famous incident? "Hi, can I help you?" "No, you can't." [walks to male coworker]"Yeah, do you sell o-rings?" )

[brianlojeck]

woo hoo! I love a good mental wrestling match. ;-)

1) Ignore the humanity? So....make into an object? Don't worry if it's degrading, it's only model.

or a mechanic, or a ball player. My point was, we all do it to just about everyone we deal with, every day. why should it stop at pictures of pretty women? (or men, for that matter... I've similarly got no issue with male strip clubs and Playgirl and the like...

2) Strawman, brianlojeck. Brianlojeck, strawman.

not at all... in fact, it points out a major difference in the way we think.

But to take the bait, I'd prefer she work 40 hours a week. Firstly, it gives something back to the community, be it economically or spiritually or what have you. Second, it'll make someone quite thankful that they have worked their butt off to get where they are. Free rides enable you to take things for granted.

and that's the difference... I, on the other hand, figure the point of work is to do as well for yourself as you can, while causing as few problems for yourself as you can. I see no reason someone should work harder then then have to at a menial job that they don't want, and do only for the paycheck. I'd much rather see our theoretical college student study harder. I've worked my butt off (still am), and that thankfullness wears mightly thin.

3)You, too, presume to know me to well. I feel that cosmo and the like are a mark on the face of womanhood, and that how they treat/feel about men ("LOL men are so stupid, it's wacky." ) is utterly shameful. But, I seem to be the minority in that (and in this, it seems, but then agian I don't have testicles...).

I never said you read it, I was just pointing out that the sword of insipid reporting has two edges.

4) Of course! People always oogle. But those posters also go to people who like the player. You do not see Vida Guerra posters in preteen girl's rooms because they think she's a good role model

What about a girl I know who looks up to Jenny Finch because she's tall and musular for her age, and still wants to be beautiful, but doesn't give a rats rear about softball? It's purely physical adoration, but doesn't do anything harmful to Jenny, or even to womankind in general.

Commited relationships are another beast entirely.

No, they're not. Being married doesn't make a man smarter. If I were a sexist, or had no respect for women, I'd just be a married sexist with no respect for women. My viewpoint of women doesn't come from my marriage any more then it comes from the pages of FHM

"Hey, we're all about girls in the sport, but here's a thread dedicated entirely to looking at people versus listening to them."

but why would I listen to any paintball player, male or female? I mean, seriously... do you think many people stay up at night wondering what Oh 'The Pro You Know" Powlak thinks about the war in Iraq? What Robbo thinks about Margeret Thatcher Vs. Tony Blair? I mean, we've all got something to say (as evidenced by this forum), but whether we're watching Clare or Salm bunker someone or pose topless with a stuffed lion, are we really wondering what their stance on oil drilling in Alaskan Wildlife Refuges is? (and no, to my knowlege Salm has never posed topless with a stuffed lion... but let's pretend...)

(Most famous incident? "Hi, can I help you?" "No, you can't." [walks to male coworker]"Yeah, do you sell o-rings?" )

[/quote]

That guy was an ***. But here's the thing, he wasn't an *** because of Maxim, he was simply an ***. Even if he'd never seen a picture of a woman in a bikini, he'd still be an ***. Sexists may like pictures of women in bikinis, but that doesn't mean it's the picture that made them sexist.

I've got a similar story. I was in a Bed,Bath,Beyond a couple months ago, getting a new... something or other, and saw a young woman and an old woman looking at cookware together. Aside from the fact that it bugs the crap out of me when the husband is shut out (or shuts himself out) of the wedding registry, they looked confused, and since I cook every day and spend way too much time learning about this stuff, I figured I could help. I asked if they needed a hand, they asked some questions, and I gave them my rundown of what I liked and disliked about each of the items (high end pans) they were looking at. The mother kind of smirked a "he's just a man" smirk, and turned to the salesgirl who had shown up, and asked the exact same question. The bride turned with excitement at getting the right answer finally, only to hear the sales girl say "He's correct."

They looked so dissapointed. ;-)

[Muzikman]

Simply put, this is a Paintball fourm and not a female pin-up forum. It might have been ok if it stayed tasteful, but it did not. It might have been cool if it stayed to paintball playing chicks, but it did not. If I wanna look at lips poking out a pair of shorts, I'll go to a page that specializes in it.