New carry pistol - advice?

[Steelrat]

And please note that if this gun is just for recreational shooting, I think a kimber, or a wilson combat, is a great choice. .45s are a blast to shoot.

[SAW]

.45s are a blast to shoot.

Literally.

I love the .45, but I just can't use them during the speed competitions.

[trains are bad]

Haha, my boss just got his permit and he has bought 3 handguns in the last month since.

IMHO, Colt .45-style pistols are terrible carry weapons. In order for them to be of any use in an emergency, you need to carry them "cocked and locked" which creates a whole host of safety concerns. People who use them for such situations either train A LOT with them, to where handling them becomes second nature, or are just trying to act cool.

What safety concerns are you talking about? always get a kick out of people that say that cocked and locked carry is insafe, because, well, it LOOKS scary to them! Honestly have you ever heard (ever) of an accidental discharge caused by C&L carry? The 1911 is entirely suitable for a carry weapon, in the right hands. It may well be a terrible choice for YOU, however. Only you can tell that. Maybe that's what you meant but don't just go saying 1911s are terrible carry weapons, 'aint true.

If I was carrying I would carry something light, dead reliable, that doesn't matter if it gets sweaty or wet or scatched, and that can be brought into action with either hand in the least amount of time and with the least dexterity required, that requires the least amount of training. For me that's a glock or Springfield XD, or maybe possibly a DA revolver. I really think glocks are the greatest thing ever when it comes to modern personal defense guns. Light, reliable beyond reliable, hold lots o shots, pull it out and pull the trigger it goes bang. No safety at all which is a great thing IMO.

[trains are bad]

BTW my father has a USP 45 fullsize. I have not been around the compact at all but his fullsize impresses me a lot for a fullsize combat handgun. Way too big to carry though.

[Steelrat]

Haha, my boss just got his permit and he has bought 3 handguns in the last month since.



What safety concerns are you talking about? always get a kick out of people that say that cocked and locked carry is insafe, because, well, it LOOKS scary to them! Honestly have you ever heard (ever) of an accidental discharge caused by C&L carry? The 1911 is entirely suitable for a carry weapon, in the right hands. It may well be a terrible choice for YOU, however. Only you can tell that. Maybe that's what you meant but don't just go saying 1911s are terrible carry weapons, 'aint true.

If I was carrying I would carry something light, dead reliable, that doesn't matter if it gets sweaty or wet or scatched, and that can be brought into action with either hand in the least amount of time and with the least dexterity required, that requires the least amount of training. For me that's a glock or Springfield XD, or maybe possibly a DA revolver. I really think glocks are the greatest thing ever when it comes to modern personal defense guns. Light, reliable beyond reliable, hold lots o shots, pull it out and pull the trigger it goes bang. No safety at all which is a great thing IMO.

Unless you plan on training intensely on how to carry it cocked and locked, I stand by my statment. The trigger pull is too light on a weapon with the hammer cocked back to handle it in a safe fashion in stressful situations. Note that I am not talking about taking it down to the range for some plinking. I have heard of ADs caused by the handling of all kinds of handguns, including those that are C&L. I think that there is some sort of mythos surrounding the .45 colt-type handguns, and that people think they are the best handguns out there.

Honestly, the safest trigger out there is a DA only type trigger. Much as I like shooting glocks, that trigger is just too light, unless it has the NY trigger setup on it. It seems nice, but if you are in any type of stressful situation you just cannot control your fine motor skills, and the chances of an AD increase greatly.

[Steelrat]

Haha, my boss just got his permit and he has bought 3 handguns in the last month since.



What safety concerns are you talking about? always get a kick out of people that say that cocked and locked carry is insafe, because, well, it LOOKS scary to them! Honestly have you ever heard (ever) of an accidental discharge caused by C&L carry? The 1911 is entirely suitable for a carry weapon, in the right hands. It may well be a terrible choice for YOU, however. Only you can tell that. Maybe that's what you meant but don't just go saying 1911s are terrible carry weapons, 'aint true.

If I was carrying I would carry something light, dead reliable, that doesn't matter if it gets sweaty or wet or scatched, and that can be brought into action with either hand in the least amount of time and with the least dexterity required, that requires the least amount of training. For me that's a glock or Springfield XD, or maybe possibly a DA revolver. I really think glocks are the greatest thing ever when it comes to modern personal defense guns. Light, reliable beyond reliable, hold lots o shots, pull it out and pull the trigger it goes bang. No safety at all which is a great thing IMO.

BTW, I would never characterize the glock as being dead reliable, especially when it comes to the introduction of foreign substances into the gun. The whole firing mechanism of the glocks is prone to failure if any oil or grit gets in them. There are also issues with clearing double feeds on glocks. But you are dead-on about DA revolvers, thats about the most realible gun you can buy.

[trains are bad]

Unless you plan on training intensely on how to carry it cocked and locked

I was concerned with your blanket statement that 1911s were terrible carry weapons. I agree with you that they are not for everyone and they are not for me because I am not comfortable with my ability to handle them effectively in stressful situations. Plus they are too heavy. BUT they are very good pistols and make very fine carry pieces for some people, thier thin size conceals well and many people are very accurate and fast with them. Plus if you run out of ammo you have decent club

I have heard of ADs caused by the handling of all kinds of handguns, including those that are C&L.

I really don't hear too much about ADs with modern handguns. By AD I didn't mean 'owner was incompetent and pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed the wrong direction' which I don't consider an AD. Some handgun designs are admittedly more suitable for untrained and uncoordinated people.

I do not agree with the notion of making a gun less effective (through a 12 pound trigger pull) in order to ease my fears of pulling the trigger when I didn't want to, thereby making it more difficult to pull the trigger in an appropriate manner (hitting my target) when I DO want to pull the trigger. I like the good old fashioned method of keeping my finger off the trigger until I want a BANG.

It's a gun, it's NOT safe, safety exists between the ears not the hands, killing whoever is trying to kill you is the overriding safety concern you are carrying the gun for in the first place, making sure you can efficiently ventilate him when the time comes is safety concern number one far ahead of making the gun idiot proof enough that it won't fire if you do something stupid like pull the trigger. Last I checked, guns were supposed to fire when you pull the trigger.

[Steelrat]

I was concerned with your blanket statement that 1911s were terrible carry weapons. I agree with you that they are not for everyone and they are not for me because I am not comfortable with my ability to handle them effectively in stressful situations. Plus they are too heavy. BUT they are very good pistols and make very fine carry pieces for some people, thier thin size conceals well and many people are very accurate and fast with them. Plus if you run out of ammo you have decent club



I really don't hear too much about ADs with modern handguns. By AD I didn't mean 'owner was incompetent and pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed the wrong direction' which I don't consider an AD. Some handgun designs are admittedly more suitable for untrained and uncoordinated people.

I do not agree with the notion of making a gun less effective (through a 12 pound trigger pull) in order to ease my fears of pulling the trigger when I didn't want to, thereby making it more difficult to pull the trigger in an appropriate manner (hitting my target) when I DO want to pull the trigger. I like the good old fashioned method of keeping my finger off the trigger until I want a BANG.

It's a gun, it's NOT safe, safety exists between the ears not the hands, killing whoever is trying to kill you is the overriding safety concern you are carrying the gun for in the first place, making sure you can efficiently ventilate him when the time comes is safety concern number one far ahead of making the gun idiot proof enough that it won't fire if you do something stupid like pull the trigger. Last I checked, guns were supposed to fire when you pull the trigger.

Yeah, I can see how I made that sound like a blanket statement on the 1911s. What I meant to say was that they are not good carry weapons for people who are not willing to train intesely with them. My bad.

As for the safety of the weapon, when I am talking about needing a DA trigger to be safe, I am concerned with the effects of adrenaline on the body. Training is all fine and dandy, but when the adrenaline hits your body, and then starts to dump, you really lose a lot of your fine motor skills. While any good shooter knows to keep the finger outside the trigger guard until ready to fire, in a stress situation that might not happen, and with a light trigger this becomes very dangerous. And believe me, hitting a target with a good DA trigger is not hard. The newest generation of DAO triggers from H&K and Sig are very nice, and very easy to shoot with.

[bornl33t]

I love my sig p229! It's an all around awesome gun! I shot it today and the recoil of the .40 was litterally the same as a walther 9mm. The p229 is one of sigs smaller guns....



While I got all the gun nuts together, I wanted to ask if anyone know anything about stoger shotguns? I want a semi auto 12 guage and I held a M-4 made by benelli. At 1400$ it's out of my price range not to mension the fact that a pistol grip isn't ergonomic for shooting clays. So the guy shows me a "stoger" 12 guage. According to the guy it has the same receiver the benelli has and get this , it's only 350$. I mean the receiver is what I wanted to begin with so this sounds too good to be true and I've never heard of stoger.... anyone have something to say about stoger shot guns?

TF

[Target Practice]

I love my sig p229! It's an all around awesome gun! I shot it today and the recoil of the .40 was litterally the same as a walther 9mm. The p229 is one of sigs smaller guns....



While I got all the gun nuts together, I wanted to ask if anyone know anything about stoger shotguns? I want a semi auto 12 guage and I held a M-4 made by benelli. At 1400$ it's out of my price range not to mension the fact that a pistol grip isn't ergonomic for shooting clays. So the guy shows me a "stoger" 12 guage. According to the guy it has the same receiver the benelli has and get this , it's only 350$. I mean the receiver is what I wanted to begin with so this sounds too good to be true and I've never heard of stoger.... anyone have something to say about stoger shot guns?

TF

Stoger used to be it's own company. They basically copied Benelli's design. When Benelli found out about this, they investigated. Turns out that Stoger was using Benelli's design SO well, that Benelli bought the company, and kept the Stoger name. So, yes, Stoger = Benelli.

[xXHavokXx]

Heh i just grabbed a Sig P239 off a friend for 250, about 200 rnds through it in PERFECT condition. Im thinking abot turning it into a .357 SIG. I've geen dying to test out that round in depth.

[Target Practice]

Heh i just grabbed a Sig P239 off a friend for 250, about 200 rnds through it in PERFECT condition. Im thinking abot turning it into a .357 SIG. I've geen dying to test out that round in depth.

IIRC, .357 SIG is illegal in CA for civillian use. I say this becase the Glock models that use .357 SIG are not for sale in CA, so you might want to double and triple check.

[xXHavokXx]

IIRC, .357 SIG is illegal in CA for civillian use. I say this becase the Glock models that use .357 SIG are not for sale in CA, so you might want to double and triple check.

TizzlePizzle,

all the gun stores in my area are selling .357 Sig chambered guns and ammo. I checked with a guy I know who has been in LE for a while, .357 is legal.


RCBS made a round with 72 grains, almost2700 fps and 745 fl-lbs of energy.

Id stick to hydra shocks but still that beast has to roar.

[bratch]

Ahh carry pistols. A subject I enjoy.

There are many options. I carry a Kimber Compact anytime it is legal. The compact is perfect for me. It has the shorter Officers frame and a 4" barrel (doesn't matter IWB). I carried a TLEII (LAPD SWAT gun) as well with no problem. For a gun of any heft you must have a nice rig. I got mine from Milt Sparks, they are looked upon very highly.

TAKE A COURSE, not the CCW course but a real course from an acredited instructor. I Took Tom Given's Combative Handgun I and it was great. There are quite a few good instructors doing weekend courses to get your basics.

A 1911 isn't bad to carry. The practice can be easily done at home. 10 minutes a day every other day and in a month or so it will be second nature to flip the saftey and take up slack in the trigger.

Another fullsize for carry is the BHP. It is very similar to the 1911 but does not have the grip safety. It can hold 13-17 rounds of 9x19mm goodness.

CZ makes great guns. Look at them you won't be disappointed.

At the other end of the spectrum is a Kahr. They are great pistols and designed for CC. I have a PM9 that rides in my pocket when I can't hide anything else. These are DAO with a very smooth trigger.

Smith makes nice revolvers. Look at the 642 for a affordable 38+p snub or a 686 for a full size .357. Ruger also makes nice revolvers in the GP100 and SP101.

I detest DA/SA. I believe it requires more practice to get used to the changing trigger pull than with a constant pull.

Ask anythig else and I'll be glad to help. But my vote is for a lightweight Kimber Compact.

[Lohman446]

Ahh carry pistols. A subject I enjoy.

There are many options. I carry a Kimber Compact anytime it is legal. The compact is perfect for me. It has the shorter Officers frame and a 4" barrel (doesn't matter IWB). I carried a TLEII (LAPD SWAT gun) as well with no problem. For a gun of any heft you must have a nice rig. I got mine from Milt Sparks, they are looked upon very highly.

TAKE A COURSE, not the CCW course but a real course from an acredited instructor. I Took Tom Given's Combative Handgun I and it was great. There are quite a few good instructors doing weekend courses to get your basics.

Ask anythig else and I'll be glad to help. But my vote is for a lightweight Kimber Compact.

Ok, addressing a few concerns. SA only is not a big deal for me - I am not going to carry a gun with one in the chamber, I realize it takes a second or less to rack the slide, but I practice this often enough with my Taurus - I'm happy with my Taurus, I just want something more.. umm "namey" and I'm thinking about dropping to .40 for the cost of practice shooting. I think there are a few advantages to this. If someone gets a gun they are unfamilar with it may take them a moment to realize its not loaded... and frankly if they just took it from me that moment in time is likely all I need to recontrol it.

As for the less than five feet and instruction - I have a black belt in Kenpo, and one of the things we did on the side for some time was weapon retention, and different tactics involving a holstered firearm. It is very likey that within five feet my goal is going to involve getting distance... well I am fully prepared to shoot someone should I draw and the attack continues it is my hope that the brandishment of a firearm will be enough to stop the situation.