An interesting thought on democracy

[ascetic1]

Forget about democracy submit to my coming rule.

lol...

ask some gay people in your school/work if they chose to be how they are. Most will reply no (I interviewed about 6 gay/lesbian people in our school for a story for our school news-magazine. 6/6 said they never chose to be gay, it just happened, and they couldn't really prevent it). Tell me how you would feel if a transformation took place in you that you couldn't prevent, and then people discriminated aginst you for it. It's the same as blacks during the civil rights movement, they didn't choose to be black, and yet people discriminated against them for it.

this has nothing to do with government but, as a side topic,ill comment.. how do you all of a sudden "transform" into being gay? and, on the other hand think that you are a member of the different sex?(another story.) men were born with a willy, girls were not....get the picture? lol im trying to keep it PG haha, but how do you go from(guys you know this) the BUILT IN attraction to girls, towards an oncoming of feelings to be with a guy..doesnt make ANY sense...

Back to the topic of the governemt, those of you who have said they have too much control over taxes etc are IMO correct....the only reason we have taxes are to pay for what the government cant...remember the boston tea party?? no taxation without representation yada yada yada....they were being charged money by the government, in order to pay for things in GB.. then war ensues. we pay so much money on the land our houses sit on, for buying items needed for survival, and for anything else we will ever need in regards to neccessity, yet what do we see in return? soldiers dont get paid much for serving their country, so dont say it is for defensive purposes..the president doesnt put his *** on the line for any of us, so dont say it is for our own good...SS and medicare are being borrowed from, thus resulting in their major deficits, coming from our paychecks, and it isnt for survival, because then the cost would only be minimum being we only need so many items to live comfortably in life...so in short, where is all the money going? the government is a strong system based on regulations, that is it! there is no substance, and the people have been taken over by it, and wind up paying for it in the end

[spantol]

this has nothing to do with government but, as a side topic,ill comment.. how do you all of a sudden "transform" into being gay? and, on the other hand think that you are a member of the different sex?(another story.) men were born with a willy, girls were not....get the picture? lol im trying to keep it PG haha, but how do you go from(guys you know this) the BUILT IN attraction to girls, towards an oncoming of feelings to be with a guy..doesnt make ANY sense.

Severe head trauma might do it. Mental illness could, too.

In most cases, though, it's not a matter of transformation, it's matter of wiring. Where you and I have a "Built-in" attraction to women, gay men do not. One of the current theories, for which there has been some experimental support, points to a chemical difference, the root cause of which may or may not be genetic. We all start life as a female. Generally, if you have a Y chromosome, a certain chemical will be released which will trigger the development of male sex characteristics, and presumably preferences. Too much or too little of this chemical, though, and you're off-kilter. You may "feel" male while being attracted to other males (homosexuality), or you may "feel" female, despite the penis (MTF transgendered). Same idea with lesbians or FTM trannies--somehow, something triggers this chemical even in the absense of a Y chromosome.

Under this theory, you could reasonably call it a birth defect, if you were so inclined. You could also call it a normal variation in human behavior. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[spantol]

Time for an on-topic post, I think. My apologies for the diversion.

This is indeed a problem with democracy. A democratic republic insulates against this risk somewhat though, as the voters cannot directly vote themselves money from the public treasury. They can vote for proxies who may promise to deliver said money, but doing so is not in those proxies' best interests, particularly when the fate of the system is at stake. Representatives stand to gain more by preserving the status quote while maintaining the appearance of serving their consituents' interests. This way, there's always more work to be done, justifying further terms of service. Any perceived failure to deliever can be shifted to an outside party, one that doesn't understand the needs of the constituency, or certainly not to the degree that the incumbant does. A little sophism goes a long way.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." Sir Alexander Fraser Tyler, 1742-1813 ( The Decline and Fall of the Anthenian Republic ) Scottish Jurist and Historian

[Rooster]

"If left to their own devices, most companies will sacrifice anything to improve their profit, which is not always a good thing. "

It is always a good thing. It keeps the mob in line.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

frntplayer - Your explanations of monopolies in a free market aren't very realistic. What you explained is one of the first phases of a monopoly, when companies create low prices and drive the competition out of business. What happens next is the new larger company that has almost no competition starts jacking up the prices, and soon an enormous monopoly can be seen. It's happened many times before (on smaller scales than Standard Oil), and that was in a market that was watched and regulated by the government. Think of what would happen if there were next to no government control?



also, ascetic1, I pm'd you so we can keep our off-topic discussion out of this thread.

[CrimsonTurkey]

Neither a pure socialist or free market system would truly work. What the most sucessful countries in the world are currently under is what is known as a "free market socialism."

Before you start screaming and calling me a commie, realize that without socialist programs we would be on our own, we would probably have paychecks of around 10 cents an hour, no unions, we would have started working for "omni-corp" at the age of six. I would have happily gone off to work at 8 years old only to have my hand caught in a machine of some sort and ripped off. I would gain no compensation. Due to the greater class gap the power would be more consolidated in the owners of the big companies, thus making corruption easier. It's a lot easier to conspire with 10 people then 1,000.

Basically Bill Gates, Martha Stewart, the Bush family, the Kennedy family, the Bin Laden family, and Donald Trump would rule the world. That's scary.

[Restola]

The US is trending to pass the point where more than half the population receives money directly from the government in the next 20-30 years.

Who here believes spending will decrease after that? Its completely out of control now (no matter which party is in charge).

I personally believe we'll reach a state of financial "crisis" at some point, and our policies will change.

[frntplayer]

frntplayer - Your explanations of monopolies in a free market aren't very realistic. What you explained is one of the first phases of a monopoly, when companies create low prices and drive the competition out of business. What happens next is the new larger company that has almost no competition starts jacking up the prices, and soon an enormous monopoly can be seen. It's happened many times before (on smaller scales than Standard Oil), and that was in a market that was watched and regulated by the government. Think of what would happen if there were next to no government control?

Thats a fallicy, that is not the way a monoply works. Please tell me why a companie would cut all its profits and even go in the hole, so that "one day" they MIGHT be able to jack up prices becuase they have a large market share, ya thats going to pan out real good. What other monoplies?...Microsoft, give me a break.

(If there would be next to no government control. we would have one HELL of an economy, we would be 10 times the superpower we are now, capitalism works.)


Free Market socialism, in other words, merchatilism, or political entrupenenuerships, is bad, and your assumptions are WAY off.

[ShadowNife]

Thats a fallicy, that is not the way a monoply works. Please tell me why a companie would cut all its profits and even go in the hole, so that "one day" they MIGHT be able to jack up prices becuase they have a large market share, ya thats going to pan out real good. What other monoplies?...Microsoft, give me a break.

(If there would be next to no government control. we would have one HELL of an economy, we would be 10 times the superpower we are now, capitalism works.)


Free Market socialism, in other words, merchatilism, or political entrupenenuerships, is bad, and your assumptions are WAY off.

Actuallly what he said was basically true. The common two ways of driving out your competition is #1) Buy the competitor or #2) Lower your prices to the point where you're actually losing money. This forces the competitor to either lose customers or lower their prices to start losing money also. Granted only large companies can take the financial strain to do this, but this happens all the time (no, I'm sorry I don't have examples while writing this at 2:30 am) when small start-up companies produce better products or somehow otherwise compete with a big timer.

Since this thread is addressing two topics seemingly, I'll touch upon the other one as well.

Being gay or lesbian often has many misconceptions around it. Granted I know some people who say they are gay or lesbian just to recieve attention since the fail at life otherwise. However, I also know genuinely gay guys, one of which was my best friends for a long time (til he switched schools). He was no different around me than he was before he realized he was gay. According to him, it was around the 8th grade when he found out he rather talk about more intimate and personal matters with guys than girls, etc. but seriously, it's not like he consciencely decided "oh i shall be gay."

Third note: <-- weirdest smiley evar.

[Rooster]

"#2) Lower your prices to the point where you're actually losing money."

This is incorrect. No creditor will let a business opperate at a loss if they can help it. However, lowering prices to the point where your competion is losing money is a ery real possibility. You have to remember, virtually no business is self-funding, and creditors are in business to make money as well.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

...remember the boston tea party?? no taxation without representation yada yada yada....they were being charged money by the government, in order to pay for things in GB.. then war ensues.
...

I feel I have to correct two common misconceptions in that statement.

(1) The taxes levied by Britain on the American colonies were not to pay for stuff in Britain. They were to cover the costs of defending and expanding the American colonies in the recently ended war with France.

(2) The tea thrown into Boston harbour in the Tea Party was actually duty-free, brought in by the East India Company with special permission, since the colonists preference for smuggled (untaxed) tea was costing them a fortune in lost sales.

[Albinonewt]

Everyone can squabble about pork-barrel, government regulation, and such, but if you really want to impact the budget

Pork Spending


But we all know $10 billion a year is just squabbeling, and not important.

[Albinonewt]

And again (because it really bugs me) a tax cut during wartime? What kind of stupidity is that?

Since the cut GDP is rising at better then 3% and the stock market came within 50 points of 11,000.

But other than that the tax cut has been a bust. I can't believe the nerve of the President, giving Americans back their money and stimulating the economy. How dare he?

[SCpoloRicker]

uh-oh, newts here :)

/runsandhides

[Rooster]

"a tax cut during wartime? What kind of stupidity is that?"

Economic growth, job creation, and a re-election. Its too bad for you the king of flops couldn't think of such a good plan.