Fighting a Ticket Advice

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  • Thordic
    AFTICA
    • May 2001
    • 5986

    #1

    Fighting a Ticket Advice

    I got a careless driving ticket on Friday night that I plan on fighting. Let me explain the situation:

    I was coming back from hanging out with some friends at the bar, and it was snowing out. Not too hard, but it was slippery out.

    We pull up to a red light, on a slight uphill grade. Light turns green, I step on the gas, and lose traction. A common occurance in my car (1999 Mustang V6, automatic). I was barely making any forward progress, but neither was the car fishtailing or doing anything funky to make me worry, so I just waited for it to get traction, which took a second or two, and went on my way.

    A block later, a cop pulls me over for "burning out" at the light. He slaps me with a careless driving ticket and tells me I'm lucky.

    Now, granted, I probably should have let off the gas when I lost traction and started over, but I was the car was under control, it just wasn't moving. I don't understand how it can be defined as careless.

    New Jersey defines Careless Driving as:

    Originally posted by N.J.S. 39:4-97. Careless driving.
    A person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving.
    As I see it, I was neither endangering nor likely to endanger person or property. The only car around was behind me, and I was barely moving.

    So I called the court and told them I plan on pleaing not guilty. Its only an $85 ticket, but its two points, and I already have a couple points on my license, and aside from that, to me it seems like a BS reason to give someone a ticket.

    So I printed out two copies of the hourly weather reports for the town I received the ticket in for that day, clearly showing it was snowing at the time in question. Also, the cop marked the ticket as "wet and snowy".

    Any other advice besides the obvious (wear a suit, be polite, etc)? What information should I bring to court to back myself up? I already plan on taking photographs of the scene, perhaps even with a level to show the grade. I've never had to fight a ticket before (any previous tickets were out of state, and I was guilty, so I just paid them and dealt with it), so any advice would help.
  • Lohman446
    Useful posts: 7
    • Jun 2003
    • 9315

    #2
    Be polite, wear a suit.

    Explain it to the judge, perhaps even look up Fords rear wheel drive driving comments like in the owners manual, it likely tells you that brief loss of traction under acceleration is not unlikely.

    What you were doing was not careless - you did not loose control of your vehicle, entering another lane, you did not exceed legal limits or even limits safe for the condition (ie you did not crash). What happened was a fairly normal occurence in rear wheel drive vehicles under icey conditions. I am expecting that Ford states that somewhere in teh manual under winter driving conditions or such.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

    Comment

    • Muzikman
      Everything AGD
      • Dec 2000
      • 6229

      #3
      If NJ is anything like PA, most likely just for showing up they will make you pay the ticket and drop the points. Unless you are doing something serious in PA, that's typically what happens.

      As for getting out of it cmpletely, just make sure you explain that the car you were in was a rear wheel drive and that it was just not getting traction on the snowy, icy surface.

      Comment

      • Lohman446
        Useful posts: 7
        • Jun 2003
        • 9315

        #4
        Ford btw acknowledges that rear wheel drive vehicles may have an issue establishing traction

        Originally posted by http://www.fairlanecredit.com/yourcar/travel/driving.htm
        If your car has rear-wheel drive or you have a light truck without four wheel drive, consider placing additional weight (such as salt or sand bags) in the trunk or truck bed. The added weight will improve your car's ability to establish traction.
        I expect your owners manual gets into ti deeper

        Edit: hmm.. that wasn't Fords site.. but a link off of Fords site, how odd is that?
        Last edited by Lohman446; 03-15-2005, 02:26 PM.
        "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

        Comment

        • Thordic
          AFTICA
          • May 2001
          • 5986

          #5
          Originally posted by Muzikman
          If NJ is anything like PA, most likely just for showing up they will make you pay the ticket and drop the points. Unless you are doing something serious in PA, that's typically what happens.

          As for getting out of it cmpletely, just make sure you explain that the car you were in was a rear wheel drive and that it was just not getting traction on the snowy, icy surface.
          Muzik, I could get out of the points quite easily, but its expensive. And that would require me to plead guilty. Which I won't do, because I wasn't guilty.

          Comment

          • SCpoloRicker
            HA HA I'm custom!!1
            • Jan 2004
            • 4375

            #6
            Originally posted by Thordic
            Muzik, I could get out of the points quite easily, but its expensive. And that would require me to plead guilty. Which I won't do, because I wasn't guilty.
            Wouldn't Muz's solution get you what you want? i.e. no points...

            $85 is a fair trade for two points, and would be a lot easier a deal to get than completely off the hook.
            God....I guess I was probably returning videotapes.

            Comment

            • Thordic
              AFTICA
              • May 2001
              • 5986

              #7
              No, because in NJ it wouldn't be just $85.

              If you cop a plea for no points, they add on like $400 in "surcharges". So it'd go from $85 and 2 pts to almost $500 and no points.

              Comment

              • Dayspring
                aka- The Day Wang

                • May 2001
                • 9664

                #8
                You'll most likely not have a "court date" as they herd lots of people into the court for traffic violations. They'll most likely take everybody who is pleading not guilty and have them talk to the prosecutor. He'll look at the summons and deal you. Then I think he confers with the officer.

                Shouldn't be that big a deal. How many points on the license right now? Enough to show on insurance yet? And see if going to a defensive driving course can help- it may knock points off the license & insurance records.

                Comment

                • chairman_mao
                  Boom Bazooka Joe
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 1032

                  #9
                  1.) Don't wear a suit it screams I'm trying to look presentable. Shirt and tie yes, suit no.

                  2.)Also I've always found that the more information the better. If you can't dazzle them with your intelect bury them in your BS. Pictures of the scene, direct quotes from Ford owner's manual in reference to slippage, weather reports etc. Also I would take pictures of the cop's location and the sight lines he (potentially) had to the light you "burned out" at.

                  These are the two things I have found are helpful in traffic court. Also if NJ is anything like MA if the officer doesn't show for court date you walk. Good luck
                  My Feedback

                  Comment

                  • Thordic
                    AFTICA
                    • May 2001
                    • 5986

                    #10
                    Four points right now, it'd be six if I get these two. I was lucky enough to get two out of state tickets this summer within a month and a half. Once because I was totally driving too fast (at IAO), and another because I didn't see a reduce speed sign on a country road in Vermont.

                    As for just talking to the prosecutor, yeah, probably, we'll see how it goes.

                    Also, I'm not sure where the cop came from, but I think he was behind the car behind me.

                    Comment

                    • SCpoloRicker
                      HA HA I'm custom!!1
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 4375

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Thordic
                      No, because in NJ it wouldn't be just $85.

                      If you cop a plea for no points, they add on like $400 in "surcharges". So it'd go from $85 and 2 pts to almost $500 and no points.
                      oh. disregard previous.
                      God....I guess I was probably returning videotapes.

                      Comment

                      • Dayspring
                        aka- The Day Wang

                        • May 2001
                        • 9664

                        #12
                        The only problem I'd have with showing them the owners manual would be "It's in the manual, you should know the car's quirks."

                        Comment

                        • punkncat
                          One foot less
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 5841

                          #13
                          My advice would be not to take legal advice from a paintball forum........

                          Call a shark

                          Comment

                          • Thordic
                            AFTICA
                            • May 2001
                            • 5986

                            #14
                            Paying a lawyer $250+ for an $85 ticket seems pretty retarded to me, dude.

                            Comment

                            • sabrefanpc
                              beach bum
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 338

                              #15
                              ^ yeah that but then itll cost u more.

                              some kind of litterature from ford, or any other car dealer, regarding real wheel drive and slipping, pics of where it happened etc. this may prove your point, or more likely simply show u are serious about fighting it and having prosecuter drop the ticket.

                              good luck

                              Comment

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