Pistols

[Konigballer]

"Don't discount ammo starting with .357. Either Magnum or Sig the prior has proven tremendous stopping power in the real world."

yeah they've got stopping power, they also have a problem with a little thing called over-penetration. To me, in a 'real-world situation' this is very bad. Whether your outside or in your house, what good is shooting a threat if the bullet goes right through the person without delivering most of it's impact energy and then hits, or penetrates, whatevers behind it. After the police come and you have to explain your actions, you dont also want to be charged for disabling your neighbors car because it was unfortunately behind the guy when that magnum bullet went clean through him! Or God forbid your rounds go through the walls inside your house and hit people you definately were not aiming for.

[Lohman446]

"Don't discount ammo starting with .357. Either Magnum or Sig the prior has proven tremendous stopping power in the real world."

yeah they've got stopping power, they also have a problem with a little thing called over-penetration. To me, in a 'real-world situation' this is very bad. Whether your outside or in your house, what good is shooting a threat if the bullet goes right through the person without delivering most of it's impact energy and then hits, or penetrates, whatevers behind it. After the police come and you have to explain your actions, you dont also want to be charged for disabling your neighbors car because it was unfortunately behind the guy when that magnum bullet went clean through him! Or God forbid your rounds go through the walls inside your house and hit people you definately were not aiming for.

Well this has proven to be an issue with both .357 rounds it can be helped by the selection of proper ammunition. The .357's get there tremendous stopping power from the speed of the bullet - and there is the risk of overpenetration with all but the most fragile of rounds. You bring up a point, but it is a point that can be overcome.

[sabrefanpc]

WHEN I carry, it will most likely be a .40

until then, 9mm is cheapest for range, and with some +p hollowpoints give me enough stoping power if I need it. Like someone trying to mug me outside a shooting range...


it could happen...

[xXHavokXx]

I <3 my 40.

It just feels like it will kill someone deader.

[teufelhunden]

Just to clarify something, he said he wants something reliable. That means the m9 is instantly disqualified from even being considered as maybe something even worth mentioning. Cuz it sucks. Really bad.

I was under the impression that the problem did not lie within the M9 itself, but the lowest-bidder magazines the government decided to purchase.

[TheProfessional]

I was under the impression that the problem did not lie within the M9 itself, but the lowest-bidder magazines the government decided to purchase.

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.

[teufelhunden]

Well, of course, I just decided to throw out the fact that it's not the best round

Any details on the Kimber handgun? And how far out the butt we're going to be paying for it?

[Blennidae]

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.

Wow, just... wow.

[txaggie08]

never seen a 45 tumble, especialy since ANY bullet tumbling would make no sense. if ammunition was intentionaly designed to tumble, we would be firing big 50 & 55 caliber musket balls. they would even be more accurate

[Konigballer]

Originally Posted by TheProfessional:

"my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range"


Wow, you know an 'ex-Delta' guy too! Sweet, I cant remember how many times me an my ex-Delta friend go play pool down at the bar with my neighbors, their all ex-special forces and black-ops agents as well, and then knock back a few beers with my uncle, John Rambo...

your what, like 17...and you hang out with a Delta operator....dont we all

[stondroopy]

i had a ruger p289 9mm,it wasnt bad, fairly inexpensive. I got mine 7 years ago and have two 15 round magazines for it Not the most smooth or accurate pistol out there,but for defending yourself it wasnt bad. I fired mine often with no problems what so ever. Im not sure about current models of ruger pistols but the ones ive seen resemble the one i used to own.

[xXHavokXx]

Yes and no. The Beretta M92FS is a decent gun however the Govt. and Military officials are thinking or replacing it with another side arm. The Marines, for example, are being issued a new .45 made by Kimber that is specially built to match their needs, especially in the area of fire power. The Beretta M92FS, which has been issued for more than a decade, is nearing its end. The 9mm is an accurate calliber yes, but lacks the stopping power of a .45. Do you want to know why? Of you course you do, so I will tell you. The 9mm is a bullet that, like most bullets when it is fired, gives off that nice spinning rotation which increases your accuracy.( oh and by the way a 9mm is accurate for up to 75ft, my friend is ex-Delta and he hits whatever he wants from that range) The .45 is a tumbling bullet which means, their is little to none rifling in the barrel itself. As a result the bullet tumbles and upon hitting its target it will cause sufficient amount of damage far more than a 9mm. A great example to demonstrate this is tie two logs on seperate sides of branch on a tree, make sure they are close to the same thickness and weight, fire the 9mm at one log and watch it sway back and fortha tad. Then fire the .45 at the other log and watch it spin almost completely around. I believe then you can make your decision on which calliber gun to decide. Oh and by the way Government agents such as the CIA, DEA, NSA, and other orginizations not mentioned here will soon be issued the Inifinity .45 cal. pistols. Which are extraordinarily efficient.

Ok, no. .45's dont tumble. My friends kimber is very well rifled, he also blows nice little holes into targets that are round. The baby eagle in .45 I thinking about picking up in 45 doesnt tumble either, something about that gun lets me hollow out the X ring from 15 yards. Tumbling bullets lack accuracy. Also, CIA , DEA, NSA may be under those two huge contracts just awarded to SIG and H&K. The Air Force is using the M11 (Sig P228), the SEALS have Sig 226s in their arsenals, 9's and 40's not 45's. The .45 ACP has it's uses but the .40 S&W and .357 SIG has a huge power behind it. A ton of LEA's , the FBI, and the Secret Service have switched to them. They punch through car doors, windshields and drop BG's day in day out. Also the 9x19 round does have some power in the +P+ loadings some LEO's use.

Personally I'm not a 9x19 fan but I dont discount it, my 40 holds 12+1, the same gun in 9 holds 16+ 1, while a Kimber holds 7+1. Cant go wrong with good ammo like Ranger T's (+P+), Cor Bon (+P) or other hot loads in high numbers from a 9x19

[kosmo]

M9s suck for lots of reasons. The magazines are terrible, but that can be fixed a little bit by taking them apart and stretching the spring out so it pushes a little harder. But they still jam like a mofo. They still have terrible balance. The safety is in an absolutely terrible spot. The gun feels like a toy because of all the slack in the slide when its put together. And because of that when you charge the weapon if youre not wearing a glove youre likely to pinch your skin and get it stuck, which hurts like a motherfudger. And if you are wearing a glove, it pinches the glove and the slide gets stuck.

[Vex]

There is another fairly recent real world event that had a DEA agent shoot himself point blank in the leg with a .40, and he never went down, and continued to talk about gun safety for a couple minutes.

Here's the video. It's pretty hilarious and scary at the same time. Listen closely to what he's saying--that's the funny part!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/deaclass.html