Debate - perceived reality

[Lohman446]

Alright folks... there seems to be a lack of discussion in friendly corner as of late, and having to avoid politics I have decided to put this idea out there. Let me start with the basics.

Everyday our perception of realtiy shapes how we see things that happen. For instance, if I have been abused and one of my friends hits me in the arm I may take that as a show of force, where as different life experiences may take it as a friendly gesture...

Thats the simplistic thing. Why can't you walk through walls? The simple answer is that they are solid. There is a seemingly convincing argument, or one that is hard to overcome at least, that says you cannot walk through a wall because your mind perceives it as solid. What if you don't understand solids, like a child? Well... the argument breaks down to instinctual, that you see it, that your senses tell you it is solid, and as such it stops your progress. Not an actual physical stop, but the metnal stop that is important. Its an offshoot of the brain in the vat argument - stimuli to a brain and the world around you does not really exist. Now without violating the rules of the board, discussing religion for instance, lets discuss :)

[PyRo]

Their is no spoon

Really, no more drugs for you.

[Lohman446]

Come on Pyro.. its better than the thread I started considering the technological marvel of the stapler and the marketing power that had ended in a "standard" staple. I can hunt down that thread instead

[Duzzy]

I am basing my answer off this assumption so please correct me if I am wrong but the difference between a solid and air is the space between the molecules and the amount of movement between the molecules

If you were able to walk through a wall your molecules would need to split because without them seperating there are no spaces small enough to fit through. You would no longer be a "whole" person because of the seperating. Now once you seperated and momentum carried your molecules through the wall, what would put them back together? Mental power? Telepathy?

[Lohman446]

But Duzzy, why do you beleive that? The point of the perceived reality thread is this. I would say I can't walk through a wall because I beleive it to be solid. You say you cannot walk through a wall because "your molecules would need to split because without them seperating there are no spaces small enough to fit through. You would no longer be a "whole" person because of the seperating. Now once you seperated and momentum carried your molecules through the wall". I tried to paraphrase and just got confused.. so I quoted.

The perceived reality argument would state you cannot because you do nto beleive you can - because you perceive that you cannot.

[Duzzy]

I gotcha, this is a perception argument.

Let me ask you this, if what you percieved was reality what would be the point of existing? You would most likely die young, get bored, or commit suicide.

Also, how would individual perceptions effect each other?

Like if I perceived that I could walk through walls but you perceived that I couldn't?

[Lohman446]

I gotcha, this is a perception argument.

Let me ask you this, if what you percieved was reality what would be the point of existing? You would most likely die young, get bored, or commit suicide.

Also, how would individual perceptions effect each other?

Like if I perceived that I could walk through walls but you perceived that I couldn't?

I have tried to test this (yes I have) by trying to truly convince someone they could walk through walls.. or myself. I have found that instinct, that a lingering doubt remains.. so the perceived reality argument is still in tact withotu being proven or disproven.

So if your truly beleived you could and I truly beleived you couldn't. Well if we argue that the universe is infinite than can we make an argument that time is infinite? If it is infinite, in countless possibilities, perhaps there are branches. You beleive you can walk through it - and do, your perceived reality is not altered. I perceive you cannot.. so in my reality you do not - my perceived reality is nto destroyed. Is it possible for both to happen at once?

I don't understand why noone on my team wants to ride to tournaments with me? LOL

[Gitaroo Man]

It's a physical reality. Don't question it lol

[Duzzy]

If reality branches then how does it come back together?

If everyone is in their own seperate reality after the branching then why are people from the previous reality who didn't branch still in it?

If it doesn't then why would you still be in my reality when I walked back through the wall?

And why aren't mentally damaged people who truly believe that they are something not? There are people who have suffered head injuries (whether pre or post birth) and are thoroughly convinced that they are kings, dogs, whatever...

[Lohman446]

Why does it have to come back together. Perhaps I have defined you in my mind, and in that vast area of unused brain I can define your actions, see what I perceive.. does that mean its there? I mean.. you walk through the wall, in your reality everyone is like HOLY COW you did it. In my reality everyone is looking at your broken nose going what a dumb... Mentally deficient.. at the moment they perceive it, are you certain they are not?

[Duzzy]

Why does it have to come back together. Perhaps I have defined you in my mind, and in that vast area of unused brain I can define your actions, see what I perceive.. does that mean its there? I mean.. you walk through the wall, in your reality everyone is like HOLY COW you did it. In my reality everyone is looking at your broken nose going what a dumb... Mentally deficient.. at the moment they perceive it, are you certain they are not?

If the realities never come back together then we go to one of my new questions.

If I am in my own reality, and my perceptions alter my reality, where did my reality come from? And where did my perceptions come from?

Let me give you an example, my mom takes a branch into her own reality seperate from everyone elses. She perceives that she is pregnant and I am born. She perceives me the way she wants me to look so eventually I am the "perfect" child. Where do my perceptions come from? She cannot perceive that I have perceptions because then they would be based off her perceptions, and we would be identical.

New question, what is to keep me from perceiving that you cannot be in any reality but mine? If I truly believed it, and made it happen the world would be a slave to my wants and desires, but it isn't.

[Lohman446]

New question, what is to keep me from perceiving that you cannot be in any reality but mine? If I truly believed it, and made it happen the world would be a slave to my wants and desires, but it isn't.

Are you sure it isn't? Yes, I'm dodging out of some of these, because a question is easier than an answer. But where do you perceive your perceptions as having come from?

[Duzzy]

Are you sure it isn't? Yes, I'm dodging out of some of these, because a question is easier than an answer. But where do you perceive your perceptions as having come from?

Slaves don't argue.

A question is easier most of the time, but if you never have an answer what kind of argument is it?

How do I perceive my perceptions?

I perceive my perceptions as based on a concrete reality that everyone is a part of in some way, including you.

So now we have an interesting situation, if I am right then you are wrong simple as that.

If you are right, then you are locked into my reality by my perceptions and you are my slave. As my slave you are not allowed to be right, only I am.

Therefore I win!

[Lohman446]

Slaves don't argue.

A question is easier most of the time, but if you never have an answer what kind of argument is it?

How do I perceive my perceptions?

I perceive my perceptions as based on a concrete reality that everyone is a part of in some way, including you.

So now we have an interesting situation, if I am right then you are wrong simple as that.

If you are right, then you are locked into my reality by my perceptions and you are my slave. As my slave you are not allowed to be right, only I am.

Therefore I win!

Close.. but I can still wiggle. In your perceived reality therei s no other reality.. good for you. In my perceived reality there is. You may perceive them to be mutally exclusive, but I do not. I would also point out that you cannot and do not fully perceive the slave theory... and as you do not actually perceive it you have not offered solid disproof.

I cannot disprove that that wall is not able to be walked through - ie I cant walk through it.

You cannot disprove that if someone TRULY beleived it was, withotu any doubt... that they could nto walk through it, because you cannot find the person that truly beleives it without doubt.

[Duzzy]

Close.. but I can still wiggle. In your perceived reality therei s no other reality.. good for you. In my perceived reality there is. You may perceive them to be mutally exclusive, but I do not. I would also point out that you cannot and do not fully perceive the slave theory... and as you do not actually perceive it you have not offered solid disproof.

I cannot disprove that that wall is not able to be walked through - ie I cant walk through it.

You cannot disprove that if someone TRULY beleived it was, withotu any doubt... that they could nto walk through it, because you cannot find the person that truly beleives it without doubt.

You stated that perceptions make reality, my perceptions have limited you to my reality and nothing else. How will you wiggle? In my reality the same rules do not apply so you are stuck, trapped by my perceptions.

As for finding someone what about people who are mentally altered. Either born that way, injured, or even abused until their mind is destroyed to such an extent that they don't know what is reality anymore. They might believe that they can walk through walls. And people who have been hypnotized, delusional? I might not find one in my lifetime but to say that someone doesn't exist?