World War 3?

[tropical_fishy]

America will do everything in it's power to prevent a war between China and Japan. Someone above me said it: if we side, we get economically screwed. As a capitalist society, we won't stand for it.

The Japanese have antagonized pretty much every Asian country around, but America has antagonized them. At our base in Okinawa, the reported rape rate is 82/1000 (versus 41/1000 in America), just as an example.

If a war between China and Japan DOES start (which I don't think the US will allow), ya'll forget that one nuclear bomb is plenty to wipe out a lot of people. You refer to "one hundred" as though it's nothing... that's TWO per every CAPITAL CITY in the US. Heck, one would take out ALL of Rhode Island.

I'm with MagmanLee, here... I don't like how everyone's referring to these countries like they don't care about their people. They have NO REASON to put their people in harm's way, other than bad blood and history. There isn't a real spark here.

Besides, China should be more worried about Taiwan gaining independence.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

China and Japan are NOT going to war over history textbooks. That said, I will contribute some thoughts to this nonsensical discussion:

Doubt it, the next world war will be in the middle east. Those guys will keep finding ways to terrorize us. Basically as long as we are allied israel and helping them against the palensteins its going to escalate.
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If anyone disagrees feel welcome to speak up.

A world war would require many governments all believing that their vital interests are threatened. That could very well happen there, because of the oil, but terrorists probably won't have anything to do with it.

If it turns into a world war china is going to lose. All of western europe, north america, and japan vs china, india, and russia? China, India, and Russia all lack the capaital to fight with technology on their side. The day the war starts we win.

What makes you think the Europeans would join in? They never helped with Iraq, and it is almost 15 years since they contributed to the liberatin of Kuwait. Every single country there has downsized their military since then, too. At peak, only the UK and France had any power-projection ability, and not enougyh to fight the Chinese in their own backyard.

India and Russia do business with the Chinese, but have disputes with them, too. They would more likely join USA-Japan than fight them.

i thought japan had no real military of its own, just us?

Japanese Maritime Self Defence Force = 47 Destroyers & Frigates, 18 submarines
Japanese Air Self Defence Force = 300 fighters, guided by AWACS
Japanese Ground Self Defence Force = 160,000 men + 900 tanks + 900 artillery

The Japanese are among the top 20 military powers in the world, if not the top ten. Much of their gear is comparable to that used by the USA.

I doubt China could win, but I also believe that North Korea would get involved and side with China. That would change the figures dramatically, espcially since N. Korea has nuclear arms. If war did break out, many people would die because, someone said this already, they don't really care about their people. Why should they give a rat's nether region for other civilians? Nukes would rain down like hail.

North Korea might join China, since they want some things from Japan, and they want to stay on the Chinese's good side. But in terms of changing the balance, not much. The North Koreans have no ability to project power beyond their own peninsula, except through a few missiles, which may or may not be nuclear tipped.

First of all, World Wars are really hard to get started, especially now that we are such an "advanced" race. From an economic standpoint, no matter which big powers fight, both will get screwed economically no matter who wins.

Smartest comment in the thread!

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Besides, China should be more worried about Taiwan gaining independence.

Second smartest comment!

But Taiwan is already de facto an independant nation. The PRC is just worried that they will make it official and legal. Taiwan is actually a hold-over of the pre-communist Chinese regime, whose leaders and troops retreated to the island after losing the civil war in 1949. Until the mid 1970's, the Taiwan government called itself "The Republic of China" and annually produced a theoretical budget showing how they would run the mainland if they were to regain control of it.

[Lee]

we've already had WWIII, it was called the cold war.

as far as china v japan, and russias involvement: russia may not be the military powerhouse they once were, but, they border on chinas north. immediate two front war for china.

as it is, china is feeding a massive population with minimal food producing land related to the size of it's population.

also, much of what china produces is consumed by economiccally developed nations that would most likely be aligned against them.

in short, you have to feed a fighting military and have money to run it. they can't do those things effectively enough to fight a pro longed conflict.

and, to invade japan as suggested in another post, you have to get your people there. i don't think china can do that in large enough numbers all at one time.

[Eagle]

Anyone here keep up with foriegn military advances? I'm a sailor, so you bet you *** I do. I'm an American, I believe in democracy, to hell with the commies, irregardless of what land mass they come from. I participated in the opening strikes against Iraq. I do not relish going to war with anyone. MagmanLee put it best with "And if you think China's military is anything like Iraq's or Afganistan, you are mistaken. Although not technologically as advanced as the US, it is well trained, highly motivated and the units have high morale. Plus just with it's seer size, it will not be a walk in the park to defeat" They have the largest army, they are well trained. They are dumping insane amounts of money into their navy, especially their gator fleet. They have more submarines than anyone else, most old, but they are building and buying more, including Russian made Kilos, and they are trying to buy a Russian Type 6. What does this mean? It means that theyhave some of the best diesle boats on earth, and are trying to aquire some of the best nuke boats too. What is the status of our subs? In the last 5 years we've aquired only 2 new subs, while de-comming at least 4. And there have been reports over the last few years that allegedly China has also managed to find away to defeat stealth technology. Japans military? They've been building, and much of their gear is designed by us, including F15 and F16 fighters and larger versions of our Burke calss destoyers. Will this current situation boil into war? Probably not. But what might cause war is Tiawan. If China and Tiawan go at it, chances are we'll get involved. Which will in turn probably drag in Britian, Japan, and both Korias. The Austrailian people don't want to get into such a conflict at this time, but that could change. Russia might, and they could jump in on either side. Trust me, this won't be quick, and it won't be easy.

[MagmanLee]

as it is, china is feeding a massive population with minimal food producing land related to the size of it's population.

also, much of what china produces is consumed by economiccally developed nations that would most likely be aligned against them.

in short, you have to feed a fighting military and have money to run it. they can't do those things effectively enough to fight a pro longed conflict.

i don't think china can do that in large enough numbers all at one time.

China's outlook on the world is drastically different. In the extremely unlikely event of a prolonged war of attrition when supplies such as food or oil becomes low, the government will have no problem with lessend distribution of supplies to it's civilian population. Different culture, different ethics. My mother was alive and remembers well famine in China. It's simple, some areas/ethinic groups simply were stop being supplied. Plus with total government control over the media, including having ISP restrict access to western media, general support of such a war can be kept.

As for invading Japan, this is absurd. China does not have the means to do this. And in the event of a conflict, they don't have to. All that needs to be done is to hurt Japan enough to save face and gain even more support of the people.

[MaChu]

First, it won't happen because whats gained in taking over Japan? If they bomb the hell out of it, all the valuable economic infrastructure is gone, there isn't an abundance of natural resources, and the land gain is nominal for the cost. Thats IF they go to war, IF they take over Japan, THEN they will have an international back lash from everyone in the world, including those socialistic whiny Western Europeans, and an end to China that we know of it today. Its that or a very unlikely nuke fest. Lots of ifs, more unlikelys and a big no it won't happen.

[Lone Brain Cell]

Nothing will come of it. 20 years ago it may have when most people thought that USSR could put up a fight, it owes the US too much money & aid.

& really what is it all over?? buggerall. they will have a dummy spit over this for a few more weeks & then it will turn out to be nothing.

[kosmo]

Alright, thats it. Time to stop the 12 year olds from doing my job. And crappily at that. Lets contribute some facts to this discussion:

1. China does not like north Korea. They closed their border with them because nK was starving its own people and millions of refugees were flooding into China. Also, China likes being the only real country over there, which is also why theyre getting pissy with Japan. Japan wants a seat on the security council that China is the only Asian country on. But anyway, China doesnt like nK because the DPRK wants to pretend to be big boys too, so they do things like make nukes to demand attention. And theyre very untrustworthy. China supports them economically simply as commie brethren.

2. Japan has a formidable military. They have for quite some time. They have many of the same weapons we do, like f-15s and m-1s. But, and this is not a joke Im telling the truth here, theyre miniaturized. Still good stuff though, leaps and bounds ahead of everything the Chinese and north Koreans have. They also have a formidable defensive missile system, capable of pummeling Chinese and Korean stuff that goes anywhere near them.

3. There will be no ww3 any time soon. It is impossible. The thing that defined the world wars, was the superpowers fighting each other. Now the only super-power in the world is the U.S. Russia is in shambles, Europe disbanded their militaries, China is 20 years behind everyone else, north Korea has enough supplies to fight a war for all of 2 weeks (once again, not joking it is a scientific fact), Iran is worse off than China, Pakistan and India only care about killing each other, and no terrorist group on the planet has the capability to fight a war. Thats why theyre terrorists and not soldiers. Israel could decimate the entire middle east if we let them, but all they really want is the a-holes around them to leave them alone. The U.S. is the only country with delusions of grandeur right now where we think we can change the whole world by ourselves. And were having trouble with handling 3 countries at the same time. Not that we really even have to handle Korea anymore, cuz the south would whip the tar out of the north, but they probably wouldnt have to because Japan still wants to blow them off the face of the earth anyway.

4. All this amounts to in the end is a bunch of kids arguing who gets to ride in the front seat of the car. Asian governments are children, every last one of them. The oldest one is China, which has only been around since the early 1900s, and theyre still trying to figure themselves out. Japan, nK, South Korea, Iran, Iraq, India, Russia, all those 'stan countries, and all the little Pacific islands were formed after WW2, and many of them as recently as the collapse of the Soviets. Theyre learning how to run their countries by watching episodes of the West Wing, or some creepy Russian equivalent. But theyre still not exactly idiots. The most powerful of those countries have gotten where they are by wading in the global markets, so they know all too well that thered be no such thing as a little localized neighborly fight. If that werent the case, Taiwan would be in ruins by now.

So says the only real military intelligence analyst on these forums.

[mr_kiel14]

Don't discount China's technology either. I read somewhere, don't ask me where I honestly don't remember, that within 10 years China will be at if not above the level of technology in warfare that we enjoy. Technology, however, does not win a war alone, just look at the pure number of people living in that country... they far outnumber us. Their nation, if they feel the need, can call pretty much anyone they want to arms in order to fulfill their military needs. It would not be pretty, and I can't even imagine the number of military and civilian personell that would be lost (China has the technology and power to attack us on our home shores in a much more militarily stratigic way... unlike the middle eastern terrorists of today). In any case, I don't feel that this will happen, but like everything that is going to happen, we cannot see it coming. I just pray that peace wins.

[kosmo]

No, China does not have the capability to attack us on our home soil in a strategic way. They dont have the naval capability to move their troops here, and even if they did the boats would be sunk before they crossed the Pacific. And no, they are not technologically advanced in their military. They have a very poor weapons development program that is more concerned with reengineering things (taking a Russian missile and taking it apart in order to copy it, etc)

[MadPSIence]

World War 3 is going to start with North Korea I presume. Team America was so wrong but so right..

derka

[SCpoloRicker]

Asian governments are children, every last one of them.


Theyre learning how to run their countries by watching episodes of the West Wing, or some creepy Russian equivalent. But theyre still not exactly idiots.


If that werent the case, Taiwan would be in ruins by now.


So says the only real military intelligence analyst on these forums.

oh dear. My PHd in nameology says otherwise.
/whats the symbology there?

[Alpha]

i dont think bush really understands where we are fighting anyway.. not unless they give him military debreifings in color by numbers style

Wy is that? I'm sick of people making jokes abou bush's intelligence. He isnt an idiot. If people video taped your like 24-7 and then replayed and photographed every silly face you made, and every mistake you made, you'd look like a dumbass too. Theres a reason why Bush was elected again. Obviously your missing something.

Could you do a better job at being president? You and I as civilians only see the tip of the iceberg. Theres so much info that goes down that changes your daily CNN watching life and you dont even know about it.

[Sparta]

I think it's safe to say that World War 3 would be the end of America. Now, before you start jumping down my throat, listen to my reasons.

1) There are too many countries (powerful or not) that would jump at the chance to take America down. While we do have allies, we certainly could not stand against a Russia/China/North Korea alliance.

2) While, at the event of a World War 3 I would sign up at the first Marine recruiting station I could find, there are VERY few people who would do the same. We would be too undermanned to carry out an invasion of a country like China or Russia.

3) Public support for the war back on home soil would fall dramatically after a few thousand people died. . .Americans these days have an inflated sense of their worth; they believe we can win a war without any casualties. . .we SHOULD know that is impossible.

4) While in the past, war has given our economy a tremendous boost (WWII), we are too dependent on the rest of the world for oil. We could not carry on a war with the oil in our reserves, and even if we did drill in Alaska, we wouldn't have nearly enough to carry out a military campaign.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I think it's safe to say that World War 3 would be the end of America. Now, before you start jumping down my throat, listen to my reasons.

1) There are too many countries (powerful or not) that would jump at the chance to take America down. While we do have allies, we certainly could not stand against a Russia/China/North Korea alliance.

2) While, at the event of a World War 3 I would sign up at the first Marine recruiting station I could find, there are VERY few people who would do the same. We would be too undermanned to carry out an invasion of a country like China or Russia.

3) Public support for the war back on home soil would fall dramatically after a few thousand people died. . .Americans these days have an inflated sense of their worth; they believe we can win a war without any casualties. . .we SHOULD know that is impossible.

4) While in the past, war has given our economy a tremendous boost (WWII), we are too dependent on the rest of the world for oil. We could not carry on a war with the oil in our reserves, and even if we did drill in Alaska, we wouldn't have nearly enough to carry out a military campaign.

1) Too many countries depend on the USA as a consumer nation. Hundreds of billions of dollars a year go to buy products from the countries you think of as potential enemies. They would be facing economic catastrophe to attack you.

And excepting nuclear ICBMs, USA vs. China/North Korea/Russia is a classic case of the tiger vs. the shark. Neither side has the ability to physically invade the other on any significant scale. And only the USA has the ability to make non-nuclear strikes on the other side.

2) That's true. But if necessary, they would simply reinstitute the draft. The vast majority of troops in WW2 were drafted, too.

3) I think you may underestimate your countrymen. If the war was really important, an actual matter of national survival, I think people would support it. A lot of that depends on the PR, though.

4) The USA would have enough oil, if they rationed civilian consumption (like in WW2). Remember, you have essentially full access to Canada's & Mexico's reserves, too, under NAFTA