World War 3?

[MagmanLee]

1) Too many countries depend on the USA as a consumer nation. Hundreds of billions of dollars a year go to buy products from the countries you think of as potential enemies. They would be facing economic catastrophe to attack you.

3) I think you may underestimate your countrymen. If the war was really important, an actual matter of national survival, I think people would support it. A lot of that depends on the PR, though.

Before Germany invaded Russia in World War II, they were number 1 trade partners. Japan and the USA traded extensively before Pearl Harbor happened too. A lot of countires depend on the USA as a consumer nation, but if demand is cut (such as in a war), there are always other customers. Granted it won't be a large market such as the USA, but there are always others in the world that will pick up the slack. There are numerous examples of how countries killed the goose that was laying the golden egg for them.

If (ONCE AGAIN EXTREMELY UNLIKELY) war breaks out between the USA/Japan and China, it will be a war fought in Asia, not a war of survival. If Americans were not willing to support the stop of Communism in a country in Asia, why do you think they would support a war based on ethnic hate and the lack of an apology from both sides? The first time a large number of US Troops are killed, public support will wane.

[Jakedubbleya]

Alright, thats it. Time to stop the 12 year olds from doing my job. And crappily at that. Lets contribute some facts to this discussion:

1. China does not like north Korea. They closed their border with them because nK was starving its own people and millions of refugees were flooding into China. Also, China likes being the only real country over there, which is also why theyre getting pissy with Japan. Japan wants a seat on the security council that China is the only Asian country on. But anyway, China doesnt like nK because the DPRK wants to pretend to be big boys too, so they do things like make nukes to demand attention. And theyre very untrustworthy. China supports them economically simply as commie brethren.

2. Japan has a formidable military. They have for quite some time. They have many of the same weapons we do, like f-15s and m-1s. But, and this is not a joke Im telling the truth here, theyre miniaturized. Still good stuff though, leaps and bounds ahead of everything the Chinese and north Koreans have. They also have a formidable defensive missile system, capable of pummeling Chinese and Korean stuff that goes anywhere near them.

3. There will be no ww3 any time soon. It is impossible. The thing that defined the world wars, was the superpowers fighting each other. Now the only super-power in the world is the U.S. Russia is in shambles, Europe disbanded their militaries, China is 20 years behind everyone else, north Korea has enough supplies to fight a war for all of 2 weeks (once again, not joking it is a scientific fact), Iran is worse off than China, Pakistan and India only care about killing each other, and no terrorist group on the planet has the capability to fight a war. Thats why theyre terrorists and not soldiers. Israel could decimate the entire middle east if we let them, but all they really want is the a-holes around them to leave them alone. The U.S. is the only country with delusions of grandeur right now where we think we can change the whole world by ourselves. And were having trouble with handling 3 countries at the same time. Not that we really even have to handle Korea anymore, cuz the south would whip the tar out of the north, but they probably wouldnt have to because Japan still wants to blow them off the face of the earth anyway.

4. All this amounts to in the end is a bunch of kids arguing who gets to ride in the front seat of the car. Asian governments are children, every last one of them. The oldest one is China, which has only been around since the early 1900s, and theyre still trying to figure themselves out. Japan, nK, South Korea, Iran, Iraq, India, Russia, all those 'stan countries, and all the little Pacific islands were formed after WW2, and many of them as recently as the collapse of the Soviets. Theyre learning how to run their countries by watching episodes of the West Wing, or some creepy Russian equivalent. But theyre still not exactly idiots. The most powerful of those countries have gotten where they are by wading in the global markets, so they know all too well that thered be no such thing as a little localized neighborly fight. If that werent the case, Taiwan would be in ruins by now.

So says the only real military intelligence analyst on these forums.

About time somebody stated the obvious on this topic...^^^
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And what is with this fantasy that russia would ally with china? First off, china and russia even if we lived in a fantasy world where russia was stupid enough to join with china, would NOT be able to hold off the rest of the world, and yes, it would be the rest of the world. The russian people sympathize with america not china.

In the real world, china is not idiotic enough to attack anybody in the near future, period, there would be absolutely no forseeable gain.

Now, I DO predict that this situation may arrise 30-40 years from now, when our economy is in shambles thanks initially to the extreme capitolism brought on by electing bush for two terms. The united states will be a shell, just big companies with the mask of "democracy", with no genuine interist in america. After a while, china who will have been a superpower by that time for at least 20 years will have excellent economical connections and of course military+alliances.

China, being a communist country will have no problems keeping their people in support of whatever they wish to do. So first to go will be taiwan, as a morale booster for the general chinese populace, while also exterminating the remains of the royalists who had always posed a threat (they fled to taiwan when the communist revolt happened). as was the case when germany attacked poland, we and the rest of the world will ignore it because we see it as to risky to start a world war over an insignificant country. By that time I speculate that all of asia with the exceptions of taiwan and japan will be chinese sympathisers.

Africa will also be developed by that time but because of our isolationist nature as compared to the aggresive nature of the chinese our ties to that development would have been minimal, bringing a 3/4 chinese sympathetic continent into the picture. Europe will remain an artifact, beautifull but no real power. South america will be our only new asset since the people of that region will have developed a strong appreciation for american/european ideals if they hadnt already.

china will allow its allies to finish off asia africa and europe and a quick strike against north america which will move south.

Theres just one factor that probably isnt much of a factor but who knows. australia (migh tdevelop a lot of ties in africa).

thats my theory, so please the next time you vote, vote tax cuts for big companies so we can all be commies in 35 years (thats what happens when you vote rebublican in case you were un-aware).

[ej_y4]

I don't know. N. Korea would definitely side with China, they would be a real threat. However, I have a hard time visualizing Russia stacking its chips against the US and our allies.

Russia would just sit back and not get involved. China and Russia just completed a joint operation training on how to take over islands a few months back. However I think it was aimed more to put pressure on Taiwan. The Chinesse wouldnt have much to gain that is worth the risk.

[Jakedubbleya]

Russia would just sit back and not get involved. China and Russia just completed a joint operation training on how to take over islands a few months back. However I think it was aimed more to put pressure on Taiwan. The Chinesse wouldnt have much to gain that is worth the risk.

Russia is chinas only quality training choice really without going to europe or the us. I dont think the fact that they chose russia for training (closer, cheaper) says much imo.

[bleachit]

About time somebody stated the obvious on this topic...

And what is with this fantasy that russia would ally with china? First off, china and russia even if we lived in a fantasy world where russia was stupid enough to join with china, would NOT be able to hold off the rest of the world, and yes, it would be the rest of the world. The russian people sympathize with america not china.

In the real world, china is not idiotic enough to attack anybody in the near future, period, there would be absolutely no forseeable gain.

Now, I DO predict that this situation may arrise 30-40 years from now, when our economy is in shambles thanks initially to the extreme capitolism brought on by electing bush for two terms. The united states will be a shell, just big companies with the mask of "democracy", with no genuine interist in america. After a while, china who will have been a superpower by that time for at least 20 years will have excellent economical connections and of course military+alliances.

China, being a communist country will have no problems keeping their people in support of whatever they wish to do. So first to go will be taiwan, as a morale booster for the general chinese populace, while also exterminating the remains of the royalists who had always posed a threat (they fled to taiwan when the communist revolt happened). as was the case when germany attacked poland, we and the rest of the world will ignore it because we see it as to risky to start a world war over an insignificant country. By that time I speculate that all of asia with the exceptions of taiwan and japan will be chinese sympathisers.

Africa will also be developed by that time but because of our isolationist nature as compared to the aggresive nature of the chinese our ties to that development would have been minimal, bringing a 3/4 chinese sympathetic continent into the picture. Europe will remain an artifact, beautifull but no real power. South america will be our only new asset since the people of that region will have developed a strong appreciation for american/european ideals if they hadnt already.

china will allow its allies to finish off asia africa and europe and a quick strike against north america which will move south.

Theres just one factor that probably isnt much of a factor but who knows. australia (migh tdevelop a lot of ties in africa).

thats my theory, so please the next time you vote, vote tax cuts for big companies so we can all be commies in 35 years (thats what happens when you vote rebublican in case you were un-aware).

so capitalism ruins an economy, China attacks its allies, we can expect a "quick strike" from the Chinese ( even though they won't be allied with the Russians. An alliance with the Russians would be the only way to execute a quick strike against the US, unless a long transoceanic invasion is expected...) Oh yeah, and voting Republican makes me a commie, because as we all know, commies love big business

[Jakedubbleya]

and... somebody didnt actually READ the post

(ruining democracy makes u a commie and not directly but through consequence, plus this is all set around 40 years from now, btw, this isnt an original or new idea people have been speculating on china economic and eventual military takeover for quite some time)

edit: communism as has been shown in history, likes to spread when ever it gets the opportunity.

[1stdeadeye]

Lots of sabre-rattling is all.

Japan can't attack China, and China will not start a war it can not win. A single US Battlegroup could prevent any cross channel invasion. If Japan and China were not seperated by the sea, then maybe. China will not try a cross channel invasion. For pete's sake, they can't get Taiwan in line and you think they want to take on the US and Japan?

[bleachit]

[AutomagBoy]

This thread is partially hijacked

Woot for capitalism, anarchy, socialism and communism

[Glickman]

ruining capitalism can make you either marxist or communist.

marxism involves the state owning the majority of the important producers and industries, its aimed more towards economics


while communism involves the state owning everything, economical, social and political. its aimed more towards politics



war with china would be great. take over their economic system, make them manufacture our arms, we need a economic boost. impose our products on them, why buy the 2 lbs of bread you need to live when you can buy a nice coca-cola beverage that will "bring dead ancestors to life" (long story )

uh o, already done

[Jakedubbleya]

With the economic downfall of the US, what motivation would china have to become a democratic nation? And from where would this uprising spring?

Thanks for the dictionary def, but i wasnt speaking literally. I understand the concepts of marxism democracy communism socialism and capitolism thank you.

All arrows point to china becoming a superpower in 10-20 years regardless of how america fares, and thats with china still keeping the majority of its valuable stock domestically traded.

I believe the words i used were "Extreme Capitolism", it is common sense that says that a purely capitolistic nation will soon fall under the direct rule of monopolies. The monopolies will likely distribute the nations wealth as they see fit, this is similar to dictatorship. The difference being that the corporately run country does NOT have the best interests of the country in mind, because they are not tied consequencially to the people. An example of this is outsourcing. I do not favor such an outcome and thus do not pretend to be an anti-socialist.

It is a mixture of capitolism and socialism that works best, it may be the 50% socialism in canada that works for them, or the 40% that works for us.
Now most of us would say that the 90% socialism is unreasonable (china), because it limits our rights too much. Personally, my biggest problem with it is that the state propaganda isnt just propaganda, its the college curriculum, or the entire news.
*these #'s are merely examples

When i stated that prediction (of chinas takeover) i stated it as a possibility, not a for-certain grab ur pitchforks and stab ur chinese neighbor. I stated it on the basis that yes, the republican party is slowly selling our country to the highest bidder which is NOT going to result in a boost in the economy, if anything it will result in more investments to china and otehr foreign markets. A good example of republican bidding would be the movement to completely get rid of the death tax. a tax that only taxes the very wealthy and would cost a predicted total of $1Trillion in ten years. Now, the democrats, although befundled why the republicans would prioritize this tax instead of taking care of food stamp and medicaid chopping amongst other issues (along with the indipendents, who actually made quite an outraged display), offered an appeasing alternative. Get rid of the death tax for the very large majority of inheritances, put the cap at 3.5 million. This would cover all but one third of 1% of all all estate inheritances. Meaning: only the richest of the rich pay inheritance tax. And costing america only 1/3rd of the money. Thsi alternative was of course ignored by the republicans.

Im saying that if america continues on this trend, we wont be more than a shell, and china with its lack of inhibitions will have eventual free reign.

[Lohman446]

Your allegiance theories seem off somehow... why would a war be one or two sided?

Take China and Russia - Russia concentrated as much force during the cold war defending itself from China as it did from the west. They had serious border patrols (Military) and force response units prepared to respond to a Chinese threat.

Russia and Japan - Japans "imperial" tendencies have nearly always included China and Russia. The take of eastern Russia and Sibera would represent vast oil reserves, as well as farm land to provide its people.

China and Japan have never seemed to get over WW2 atrocities, committed by both sides.

China has its own problems.. its best ally (North Korea) is rumored to be led by as close to a madman as leads a nation in this century. And North Korea has its own problems.\

What of India and Pakistan getting involved, while the worlds attention is diverted and "settling" there Kashmir dispute once and for all.

The muslim nations... and the sects of Islam are as violent towards each other as the protestants and catholics.. what if they did not have the evil west to be mad at?

[AutomagBoy]

I stated it on the basis that yes, the republican party is slowly selling our country to the highest bidder which is NOT going to result in a boost in the economy, if anything it will result in more investments to china and otehr foreign markets. A good example of republican bidding would be the movement to completely get rid of the death tax. a tax that only taxes the very wealthy and would cost a predicted total of $1Trillion in ten years. Now, the democrats, although befundled why the republicans would prioritize this tax instead of taking care of food stamp and medicaid chopping amongst other issues (along with the indipendents, who actually made quite an outraged display), offered an appeasing alternative. Get rid of the death tax for the very large majority of inheritances, put the cap at 3.5 million. This would cover all but one third of 1% of all all estate inheritances. Meaning: only the richest of the rich pay inheritance tax. And costing america only 1/3rd of the money. Thsi alternative was of course ignored by the republicans.

Yes but now the rich can spend the money they were other wise being taxed, therefore creating jobs. If they save it they (unintentionally) invest in capitol for busisnesses which then increases production that now creates more wealth.

[SuperHijack ]Which now leads us to money, YEAH! . In America the extreme low class are rich enough to be able to be obese. Rather than people in africa who's low class are starving to death on the streets. Isnt america awesome? [/SuperHijack ]

[Jakedubbleya]

A war of such scale would clearly become two sided, as have all great wars. Small differences are put aside in such situations untill their resolutions. In which case yes, we may have many smaller wars.


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AutomagBoy,
That money isnt going right back into the economy "creating jobs", much of it will be invested in foreign markets. And much will merely be put into gigantic bank accounts. Its also giving the rich more influence over the actual GOVERNMENT, you want that?

Did you knwo that we are losing our middle class? The reality of republican economics is corrupt at best. The rich get richer, the desolate lose health coverage (ever wonder why so many homeless people are crazy? thank you republicans for shutting down our mental health care system) and the middle class become the lower class.

Now the democrat plan isnt perfect by any means, but it worked, and it worked VERY WELL.

Now im not some ultra liberal here man, but the issues like abortion and the death penalty need to be resolved on the individual level and THEN the state level, we cant sacrifice our country for a few moral issues. You think china cares about abortion? hell they do live abortions.

So yeah thats a little more into my thoughts.

[AutomagBoy]

Its also giving the rich more influence over the actual GOVERNMENT, you want that?

Yes

Did you knwo that we are losing our middle class? The reality of republican economics is corrupt at best. The rich get richer, the desolate lose health coverage (ever wonder why so many homeless people are crazy? thank you republicans for shutting down our mental health care system) and the middle class become the lower class.

So, because of the lack of health coverage the middle class is getting poorer on average?

Now im not some ultra liberal here man, but the issues like abortion and the death penalty need to be resolved on the individual level and THEN the state level, we cant sacrifice our country for a few moral issues. You think china cares about abortion? hell they do live abortions.

Well....Wait, i agree with you.