proable cause and cops.

[SlartyBartFast]

Wait...your calling guys who like to party and have a good time anti social? LOL Before I go any further Ide love to hear your definition of anti social.

"Social" is larger than your small group of friends and assorted hangers-on.

"Social" as in "society". Getting along with your neighbours and living a good citizen. That kind of thing. You may have the right to socialise with your friends, your neighbours have the right to a quiet night.

And before you get anymore personal, I got invited to plenty of parties. And it's got nothing to do with being hypocritical about underage drinking.

But, if you're going to drink underage, get a grip and do it responsibly. Otherwise be prepared to face the concequences and don't bellyache if you get caught.

So, maybe big blow-out prarties that are liekly to attract the attention of the police aren't the best place to get involved in illegal activity.

For the record, I was in bars at 16 (but then again "legal" drinking age is 18 here).

I was pointing out that they can use violence as an excuse to come in.

At that point, it ain't no excuse and I doubt anyone is seriously under the misconception that the police wouldn't breakdown the door if there was reported vilence. It's the reason the police exist in the first place. Only you seemed to be deluded enough to think that after a report of violence the police would take your word that all is well and leave the party alone.

Just because your legally allowed to drink now doesnt mean you didnt do it when you were in high school so stop trying to knock underage kids who can drink responsibly.

I'm not knocking anyone who can act responsibly. I'm knocking the idiots who can't/don't act responsibly, refuse to live up to their responsibilities or limit their acts to manageable levels, overreact/panic when the cops show up, then ***** about the cops hassling them afterwards.

If you're going to break the law (underage drinking), best that you do it only with close friends you trust, and you do it as discretely as possible.

[Hasty8]

bro they cant just come in. Not many people understand this and everyone who throws parties needs a headcheck these days. The cops cant just bust in! They will though if you give them an inch. Tape those windows man, turn out the lights, and be quiet. When I throw parties and the cops come, your either inside my house, quiet, or off my property. Around here we call it lockdown. When we see a cop, everyone just parties quieter. You turn out all the lights, make out with a chick, whatever. Meanwhile I go outside, being 18 im responsible for what goes on at my house. This is important too, when you go outside, dont go out the front door. If they look in and see a minor drinking thats probable cause and they will most likely get in despite your efforts to stop them. I go out the back and jump the side gate,(get your buddies inside and out of your backyard, this is another way they come in). Just go up to the cop and tell them you have a few friends over, nobody under 21 is aloud to drink in your house, if anyone under 21 is caught drinking outside, you had nothing to do with it. And tell them politely that under no circumstances are they allowed to come in your house, or backyard. Ask if the neighbors are complaingin about the noise and there reason for being there. If theres a noise problem, fix it. You have to kind of cooperate with cops to throw a party that lasts all night. Dont let any drunk guys throw anything at them or yell anything. They cant just come in your house but they will make it hell for you. Like ive had em sit right off my property and try to bust every underage drinker who leaves(which is usually everyone in the house).

Also get someone you trust on that front door and side gate or w/e. Dont let some drunk kid or scared girl just open the door to the cops, because they can walk right in if anyone opens the door, and once they are in they wont leave. I dunno ive sat in my house with 40 people and locked everything up except one window by my door and the cops stood on my porch for hours banging for like 3 hours. We just laughed at them and taunted em through the window and what not, we were dumb but we wanted to see what would happen. They honestly left after 3 hours and parked down the street. They left me this really threatening note from the Sheriifs dept. though. It was kind of funny. If your down for just waiting it out you can just ignore them, but they'll never go away unless you talk to them politely. Dont give in though cops will BS you all day long so that you let them in. Just stay strong on that no, and after a little while tell them unless your under arrest, your going back inside and for them to leave your property.

Its hard dealin with the cops man but if you throw parties enough eventually you can come to a mutual agreement with them. Like cops dont really try to bust my parties anymore but at the same time I dont let them get out of hand like they used to.

O yea and just a side note. A couple weeks ago I was partying at my best friends house and her house got straight mobbed through the back door in a gang hit and they jumped this one guy REAL bad and stabbed him bad. I couldnt even break it up and I was doing everything I could cuz I know both sides. Anyways thats a whole different story but 10 minutes later the cops basically busted in the front door with this big metal thing. I told em to get the out and they said they could do whatever they wanted because it was an emergency/ dangerous situation or some crap. They didnt really bust anyone just checked out the wreckage from the fight and ended the party a little early. So lesson learned, try not to let any fights go down or the cops will ruin your night.

This is so incredibly wrong it's scary.

The police have every right to enter so long as they can show they have probable cause. This is similar to a police officer commandeering a privately owned vehicle. Typically, no fault will be found on the officer if they can show that there was a dire need for the vehicle. OF course, any damage incurred is an entirely different manner.

Now, I will say that laws can be different in some places and maybe that is the law in your area. More accurately, it sounds to me like the cops are just tired of dealing with a bunch of drunken, idiotic teenagers. I am highly doubtful that cops stood on your door for 3 hours with you taunting them through the window. I'm more willing to believe that it was closer to 15 minutes with you hissing to your drunk friends to shut up.

And it doesn't matter if someone under 21 is caught outside drinking. If it's on your property it's your responsiblity. Agian, laws in different areas are different but here in NY, if I own a pool my home insurance skyrockets. Makes no difference of the pool is surround by a 15 foot anti-scaling fence with guard towers, search lights and armed guards. My insurance goes ballistic.

If cops knock on your door and hear a blood curdling scream you can damn well bet your keister they are coming in guns drawn. Hell, if they are passing by the house and hear that they are coming in.

If cops get calls from neighbors saying that there is a bunch of drunken kids milling about your house and they see this you can likewise bet that they are coming in.

Again, laws are different in different areas but it's a good rule of thumb that if they have a reasonable suspicion they can come in. How do you know if they might have reasonable suspicion? If you see the cops and say "Oh $*!$" then they have probable cause.

Again, the reasonable suspicion must be supported in court.

[SlartyBartFast]

this is my thoughts exactally, im not trying to start any trouble, and we dont get complaints about noise because our neighbors are here, and we partrol the house for noise checks and keep people off of the porch. we work hard to keep things plesent for everybody envolved, us the guests, the town, the cops. im not trying to fight for my right to party or anything, i just want to know the letter of the law so to speek, so i know where i stand and where to draw the line on things.

Sounds like you're on the level then. If that's the case, just do as the cops ask.

Really, there's nothing you can do to stop them if they want to get you. But, if you're polite and cooperate you'll have better grounds after the fact if you need to complain.

The only way to deal with any kind of police harrasement is do EXACTLY as they say and complain to their superiors and the civilian complaints board the next day. They are the ones with ALL the power when they show up at your door.



Although I find it hilarious discussing 18 as underaged.

But then again, I've seen plenty hoards of loud American losers patrolling St-Catherines street in Montreal clearly demonstrating why they shouldn't be allowed to drink at 18.

[misfit]

when i was a freshmen at drexel i had a frend who went to cananda got loaded, mouthed off to a cop. he took him to the border and deported him. just dropped his but back in the u.s.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

This is so incredibly wrong it's scary.

The police have every right to enter so long as they can show they have probable cause. This is similar to a police officer commandeering a privately owned vehicle. Typically, no fault will be found on the officer if they can show that there was a dire need for the vehicle. OF course, any damage incurred is an entirely different manner.

Now, I will say that laws can be different in some places and maybe that is the law in your area. More accurately, it sounds to me like the cops are just tired of dealing with a bunch of drunken, idiotic teenagers. I am highly doubtful that cops stood on your door for 3 hours with you taunting them through the window. I'm more willing to believe that it was closer to 15 minutes with you hissing to your drunk friends to shut up.

And it doesn't matter if someone under 21 is caught outside drinking. If it's on your property it's your responsiblity. Agian, laws in different areas are different but here in NY, if I own a pool my home insurance skyrockets. Makes no difference of the pool is surround by a 15 foot anti-scaling fence with guard towers, search lights and armed guards. My insurance goes ballistic.

If cops knock on your door and hear a blood curdling scream you can damn well bet your keister they are coming in guns drawn. Hell, if they are passing by the house and hear that they are coming in.

If cops get calls from neighbors saying that there is a bunch of drunken kids milling about your house and they see this you can likewise bet that they are coming in.

Again, laws are different in different areas but it's a good rule of thumb that if they have a reasonable suspicion they can come in. How do you know if they might have reasonable suspicion? If you see the cops and say "Oh $*!$" then they have probable cause.

Again, the reasonable suspicion must be supported in court.

Dude, I dont know all the laws or anything, but I do throw parties, and I do go to parties. And from personal experience if you dont let them in, they will not or can not come in. Maybe they technically can break down your door if they see a obvious minor with a beer can, but for the most part they wont. Actually ive never seen them just bust in for anything short of violence and one time a chick called for help clearing out her house, and when they got there, she was nowhere to be found so they came on in.

Other than that it will take a drunken idiot opening the door or an open side gate for them to just walk through(they will go through any open door). But mostly I see the front door thing happen. Someone comes to the party, knocks, whoever is standing by the door lets them in right, someone else knocks, whoever is standing by the door opens it and just like that 2 cops are inside.

Like you said, its different in every area, and in my area, cops can be kept out if you know what to do.


"I am highly doubtful that cops stood on your door for 3 hours with you taunting them through the window. I'm more willing to believe that it was closer to 15 minutes with you hissing to your drunk friends to shut up."

Honestly man, I wouldnt make up stories to make my user name sound cooler. I dont really care that much I have enough things going for me that im not trying to sound "cool" or anything on the net, just sharing info about cops comming into houses with the starter of the thread because he asked for it so I gave my experiences. It doesnt bother me if you believe it or not really, because again I have no reason to convince you. Im just trying to get a point across that cops use all these methods for intimidation and "You better let us in, OR ELSE" But when it comes down to it, if you dont open the door, they most likely arent going to break it down. Unless of course something else is going on which I already adressed earlier.

party on

[fire1811]

if a cop wants in he will come in.
there is ALWAYS something he can use against you.
there are so many things that justify probable cause you can cover them all. If he is a good cop your done.

I love when people get mad because they were caught breaking the law

[warpspyder]

Out of curiosity are there fire codes that limit how many people can be in a building/house? Not really too familiar with those, but just another thought.

[fire1811]

Out of curiosity are there fire codes that limit how many people can be in a building/house? Not really too familiar with those, but just another thought.

most cities/towns have codes for buildings. Houses usually do not. Not saying they dont it would be up to the local Fire Department or building inspector/code enforcer.

[warpspyder]

That's what I thought, but as I said I don't really know much about those other than the fact that they affect buildings. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Jakedubbleya]

Ive come to understand probable cause as:

They hear screaming so they bust in. They save the lass or whatever.

Now they ALSO notice within the house, by chance, a marijuana plant and a couple of 12 year olds shooting up on acid.

(Now 12 year olds shooting up on acid may be an "emergency" and cancel this out but its just a zaney example.)

They cannot hold you for the merijuana because that was not the "probable cause" for which they entered upon your property.

Neither can they charge the psycadelic gradeschoolers with consumption, same reason.

So if a cop busts in because of "fire code violation" or some b.s. he does not have the legal ability to charge your friends with drinking tickets. They are not admissable in court and all your friends should refuse to sign the tickets.

Same deal with a warrant, if they get a warrant looking for illegal drugs and find youve got say illegal weapons, they cant hold you for them.

But this is just what ive been told, if anybody knows the facts on this id like to hear the real deal.


tactic:
Put up a private property/no trespassing sign on the outside of your property (if you have a house with a big lawn/frathouse), then if the cops give you a bs excuse (like the example you gave, said your neighbors were complaining but your neighbors were in fact at the party) you can charge them for trespassing(i think), or at least threaten them which will give you a lot of leeway. They wont just walk up to your house anymore to see whats going on.

underage consumption of alchohol tickets are no fun in utah, 600$-800$ and 20 hrs of comm. service, we do all we can lol. I tend to keep to the smaller parties myself tho.
edit: also cops hate showing up for court on small things like drinking tickets, use that to ur advantage (mix in with much politeness).
--------------------------------

btw mad max is the man.

[Lohman446]

Ive come to understand probable cause as:

They hear screaming so they bust in. They save the lass or whatever.

Now they ALSO notice within the house, by chance, a marijuana plant and a couple of 12 year olds shooting up on acid.

(Now 12 year olds shooting up on acid may be an "emergency" and cancel this out but its just a zaney example.)

They cannot hold you for the merijuana because that was not the "probable cause" for which they entered upon your property.

Neither can they charge the psycadelic gradeschoolers with consumption, same reason.

So if a cop busts in because of "fire code violation" or some b.s. he does not have the legal ability to charge your friends with drinking tickets. They are not admissable in court and all your friends should refuse to sign the tickets.

Same deal with a warrant, if they get a warrant looking for illegal drugs and find youve got say illegal weapons, they cant hold you for them.

But this is just what ive been told, if anybody knows the facts on this id like to hear the real deal.

Thats great theory.. totally wrong but great theory. As long as they legally entered the premises they can arrest you, charge you with, and use evidence obtained against you on that entrance that related to any criminal activity. Other than being totally wrong, it sounds like something some stoner came up with, its pretty good. I do credit you wtih the best laugh of the day, and you did have a good disclaimer. So other than being totally wrong, its all good.

[Muzikman]

Misfit! Your at the Rock now? My cousin goes to school there...If ya happen to run into her, just keep her off the bars/tables

The big thing about Slippery Rock is that up until a few years ago it was a dry town. Now that it no longer is there are ALOT more parties and the police like to crack down more. When I was in HS and just out of HS I had a lot of friends that went to SRU and it was a very quiet campus.

So when you going to invite me up?

[misfit]

next party ill let you know. ask her if she has ever been to a party at the yellow house. i keep hearing stories about how it used to be a big party school a bunch of years ago, and that the dumpsters were on fire like every night.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

Ive come to understand probable cause as:

They hear screaming so they bust in. They save the lass or whatever.

Now they ALSO notice within the house, by chance, a marijuana plant and a couple of 12 year olds shooting up on acid.

(Now 12 year olds shooting up on acid may be an "emergency" and cancel this out but its just a zaney example.)

They cannot hold you for the merijuana because that was not the "probable cause" for which they entered upon your property.

Neither can they charge the psycadelic gradeschoolers with consumption, same reason.

So if a cop busts in because of "fire code violation" or some b.s. he does not have the legal ability to charge your friends with drinking tickets. They are not admissable in court and all your friends should refuse to sign the tickets.

Same deal with a warrant, if they get a warrant looking for illegal drugs and find youve got say illegal weapons, they cant hold you for them.

But this is just what ive been told, if anybody knows the facts on this id like to hear the real deal.


tactic:
Put up a private property/no trespassing sign on the outside of your property (if you have a house with a big lawn/frathouse), then if the cops give you a bs excuse (like the example you gave, said your neighbors were complaining but your neighbors were in fact at the party) you can charge them for trespassing(i think), or at least threaten them which will give you a lot of leeway. They wont just walk up to your house anymore to see whats going on.

underage consumption of alchohol tickets are no fun in utah, 600$-800$ and 20 hrs of comm. service, we do all we can lol. I tend to keep to the smaller parties myself tho.
edit: also cops hate showing up for court on small things like drinking tickets, use that to ur advantage (mix in with much politeness).
--------------------------------

btw mad max is the man.

I dont think thats entirely right if a house is treated anything like a car, which in most circumstances it is. If a cop searches your car because you got pulled over.(Again the cops cant search this without probable cause unless you let them) He can bust you for ANYTHING and everything in it. I would bet its the same with a house.

I think what your touching on though is illegally obtained evidence. Like the OJ case for example. If they come in your house and your lawyer can prove they shouldnt have, then anything they find is thrown out. So in theory yea if a cop just walks in your house for no reason and sees that your growing weed, I dont know, come to think on it you might still get rolled. Im just rambling now ill stop.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

and that the dumpsters were on fire like every night.

Thats when you know it was a really good party.