Gas Raped

[warpspyder]

Ehh.. I think your taking normal business ventures and investments and spinning them out of control. Did the Bush name help? Undoubtedly it did, but so did his own reputation. Life is not fair, some people get breaks others don't, and sometimes its as much about character as success or skill. I don't see this spinning into some big conspiracy, just as I failed to see "Whitewater" being some big conspiracy. Can it be made to look like one, especially to people unfamilar with large scale business? Sure it can.. easily, but the fact is a lot of things in large scale business confound those of us not in it.

Yes but his own reputation was getting sub-par grades (which he freely admits) and drilling dry holes. I may not know much about business, but that's not a person I would invest in

Oh and on a side note don't get me wrong I'm not saying liberals (democrats) are perfect. I'm just saying I have more left winged views than others. Just the way it is, and I don't mean to offend anyone. As far as I'm concerned you are all my friends.

[Lohman446]

Yes but his own reputation was getting sub-par grades (which he freely admits) and drilling dry holes. I may not know much about business, but that's not a person I would invest in

Oh and on a side note don't get me wrong I'm not saying liberals (democrats) are perfect. I'm just saying I have more left winged views than others. Just the way it is, and I don't mean to offend anyone. As far as I'm concerned you are all my friends.

His reputation for being a straight shooter was what I was referring to. I can stand loosing money, especially when the person loosing it stands up and says it was my fault... Sometimes failure can be turned into success. His failures built a reputation for honesty and accountability, something many people like to see. His Bush name saved those failures from dragging him into depths of failure he could not recover from.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

His failures are building a reputation for dishonesty and unaccountability, something many americans like to see.

i noticed some spelling errors and gladly fixed them

[warpspyder]

But that doesn't explain why all of a sudden Bush wouldn't want to be associated with James Bath. They even went as far as to censor his name out of some documents that were released. If it was just buisness as usual why the secrecy? And I don't buy the "I'm a stand-up guy who doesn't tell a lie" bull . If he doesn't lie tell me, where are the weapons of mass destruction Iraq had? Come on I want pics! I also have a vid somewhere of Bush attempting to explain tribal sovereignty (sp?). Which I can't spell (cut me a break) but he has no idea what it is. If you want to see it I'll try to find it. It really has nothing to do with this it's just funny as heck.

EDIT:
Captain Jack, you are my new best friend. Glad to know I'm not here by myself.

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but do you normally invest in companies high in debt? And what did harken gain by buying Arbusto? Couldn't they have just taken Bush on if that's what they were after? Doesn't seem to add up really.

[Lohman446]

But that doesn't explain why all of a sudden Bush wouldn't want to be associated with James Bath. They even went as far as to censor his name out of some documents that were released. If it was just buisness as usual why the secrecy? And I don't buy the "I'm a stand-up guy who doesn't tell a lie" bull . If he doesn't lie tell me, where are the weapons of mass destruction Iraq had? Come on I want pics! I also have a vid somewhere of Bush attempting to explain tribal sovereignty (sp?). Which I can't speel (cut me a break) but he has no idea what it is. If you want to see it I'll try to find it. It really has nothing to do with this it's just funny as heck.

EDIT:
Captain Jack, you are my new best friend. Glad to know I'm not here by myself.

I beleive, that honestly, the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was a failure of the intelligence community. I beleive he is at fault for it for not having a better grasp and control over what he was being told, and the knowledge to discern if it was good information or not, but I do not beleive that he was looking for a lie to go into Iraq. I think he asked for information, and he may have desired to go into Iraq, and he was given the information that he needed. I do not beleive he was part of manufacturing information or the lies.

Don't think I'm trying to corner anyone. He built a reputation for honesty.. that does not mean he was honest. There is a difference.

I personally, don't like any of the politicians that run in the major parties. All the democrats had to do was not loose the last election, they managed to find a candidate who could loose. Seriously, it wasn't about winning, they had it... it was about not loosing. I hope you understand the difference. I watch passively, because I dont beleive that either of the parties offer a better vision of hte future than tomorrow, so I really don't care who wins. I think the Republican party has a more logically sound platform, but its so changing that it really doesn't matter. Besides, the two parties are so "centeric" that issues seldom really matter. Not to mention the limited power of the Executive branch...

PS and yes companies regularly invest in unprofitable companies high in debt, or those slipping. Mercedes buyout of Chrysler which was slipping. Its not uncommon to buy heavily debt laden companies that are in your area of expertise, in the hopes of cost cutting and combining to make them profitable. You can find conspiracy here, but you have to ignore some of the illogical things that happen in business to do so

[warpspyder]

I could not agree more with that actually. I hate all politicians and wouldn't trust them with my 35 cent pen. I do believe that Bush should have been more careful, and planned the war in Iraq better, and not tried to force feed bogus information to the American people. Frankly I think our electoral system is messed up, and in reality Bush hasn't run away with any election despite what people may think. My favorite quote of all time came after the election. It went something like this

America isn't red or blue, it's purple!

Referring to blue and red states they just mixed the color. Anyways it's been a long day and I'm ready for bed. Pleasuer talking with you.

[Jakedubbleya]

Earth to debaters! with the rise of china, use of oil will be restricited for commercial use in only 20-30 years anyway. So what are you all buggerin about? We pay more now or we pay more later, theres only so much fuel guys...

Obviously, limiting gas consumption now is the way to go so we have more time to develop alternative fuels, and ease into those alternatives more fluidly. The "lower prices by drilling more" conservative theory is somewhat idiotic by that logic. I mean, havent any of you republicans realized that right wing environmentalism AND tax policies are driven solely by their sponsors? Its sort of obvious i dont know why people still side with a party that quite frankly is screwing them on these issues.

Anyway, diesel is definitely the way to go from a lot of economical AND performance angles.

BTW saddamn was a jerk, and i think it was honorable for us to free his people from his jerkyness, but we did it in a rather dis-honorable way and i mean, there ARE bigger jerks in the world...

[tropical_fishy]

Earth to debaters! with the rise of china, use of oil will be restricited for commercial use in only 20-30 years anyway. So what are you all buggerin about? We pay more now or we pay more later, theres only so much fuel guys...

Obviously, limiting gas consumption now is the way to go so we have more time to develop alternative fuels, and ease into those alternatives more fluidly. The "lower prices by drilling more" conservative theory is somewhat idiotic by that logic. I mean, havent any of you republicans realized that right wing environmentalism AND tax policies are driven solely by their sponsors? Its sort of obvious i dont know why people still side with a party that quite frankly is screwing them on these issues.

Anyway, diesel is definitely the way to go from a lot of economical AND performance angles.

BTW saddamn was a jerk, and i think it was honorable for us to free his people from his jerkyness, but we did it in a rather dis-honorable way and i mean, there ARE bigger jerks in the world...

I think this is the first time that i;ve ever agreed with you. But I'll say it! I agree 100%. Especially about the bigger jerks in the world.

[Jakedubbleya]

I think this is the first time that i;ve ever agreed with you. But I'll say it! I agree 100%. Especially about the bigger jerks in the world.

Looks like that logic powder i mixed in with your fishy flakes is working...

*taps on aquarium glass*

[Lohman446]

Obviously, limiting gas consumption now is the way to go so we have more time to develop alternative fuels, and ease into those alternatives more fluidly.

I actually agree here. Why use a fuel that will not make us more of a world power? If we are developing a fuel (and it is our "brain trust" that will develop it) why not make it beneficial to us. The use of ethanol would revitalize America's farming economy, strengthen our world stance, and turn us from being dependent on foreign resources to foreign economies being dependent on our resources, which will be renewable

The "lower prices by drilling more" conservative theory is somewhat idiotic by that logic. I mean, havent any of you republicans realized that right wing environmentalism AND tax policies are driven solely by their sponsors? Its sort of obvious i dont know why people still side with a party that quite frankly is screwing them on these issues.

Although it may be politically driven the Alaskan governor and the majority of Alaska support drilling in Alaska. Well it is not an end all be all solution it does help short term, which is what we need to address. Ignoring short term solutions in favor of pursuing long term ones, or ignoring long term ones in favor of short term ones exclusively is "somewhat idiotic" and "sort of obvious " a poor course of action.

Anyway, diesel is definitely the way to go from a lot of economical AND performance angles.

Well I agree that diesel has some advantages, including the intriguing possibility of bio-diesel and the use of alternative fuels (as in used cooking oil) I think that there are other more viable solutions that depend on America's own renewable resources rather than foreign resources.

BTW saddamn was a jerk, and i think it was honorable for us to free his people from his jerkyness, but we did it in a rather dis-honorable way and i mean, there ARE bigger jerks in the world...

I unfortunately agree and disagree. Saddamn did commit heinous crimes against humanity. However, the dangers to America come not from government in itself, but from fundamental zealotism that portrays us, and our lifestyle, as inherently evil. Saddamn did not promote fundamentalism, in fact it is my understanding that Iraq was one of the most religiously tolerant countries in the area. History teaches us (both recent and ancient) that foreign conquest and "tinkering" in the middle east fails. We know this from the British occupation in the mid 1900s, from the US involvment in the late 70's and 80's in Iran, from the crusades themselves and countless other issues.

[txaggie08]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on many of those points (look for the ones in bold). Prove they were infested with terrorists. There is no reason to believe that Iraq was harboring terrorists nor any reason to believe they did not abandon their attempt to have "weapons of mass destruction".

right thats why hussein was paying reward money to familys of suicide bombers, and was purchasing labratory equipment used in the refinement of uranium 235- U238

[txaggie08]

I unfortunately agree and disagree. Saddamn did commit heinous crimes against humanity. However, the dangers to America come not from government in itself, but from fundamental zealotism that portrays us, and our lifestyle, as inherently evil. Saddamn did not promote fundamentalism, in fact it is my understanding that Iraq was one of the most religiously tolerant countries in the area. History teaches us (both recent and ancient) that foreign conquest and "tinkering" in the middle east fails. We know this from the British occupation in the mid 1900s, from the US involvment in the late 70's and 80's in Iran, from the crusades themselves and countless other issues.

no he just commited warcrimes against civilian populations by launching armed biological weapons(wich are illegal under international law) into curdish towns. no heinous crimes in that. i mean, there werent men hanged at nuremberg for just as bad............

if slaughtering civilian populations with nerve agents and bio weapons isnt heinous, you may want to reasses your moralistic outlook on life man.....

in reality, the UN and NATO violated there own laws and treatys by not arresting the man as soon as he did that. The man was just as bad as any other dictator in the world has ever been, he was just contained

[Jakedubbleya]

Although it may be politically driven the Alaskan governor and the majority of Alaska support drilling in Alaska. Well it is not an end all be all solution it does help short term, which is what we need to address. Ignoring short term solutions in favor of pursuing long term ones, or ignoring long term ones in favor of short term ones exclusively is "somewhat idiotic" and "sort of obvious " a poor course of action.

What are you trying to say? of course alaskans support it, it would mean A LOT of jobs and cash into the area.

BUUUT.... that short term solution GREATLY comprimises our long term ones.We need alaskan oil to hold our commercial economy together when all the other wells have run dry or begin restricting american access.

imo there are no short term solutions short of getting the producers to stop overcharging.
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My diesel referance wasnt for the future but for the present.
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I personally am partial to hydrogen fuel for the long term, if we could just get a better process to isolate hydrogen then wed be set.
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We rescued saddams people, thats all i care about. Extremist anti-american views and cultures are another issue all together.
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who to blame? CLinton for letting the liberals shut oil refineries down and jack EPA requirments up to ungodly standards. want proof, ill introduce you to the THOUSANDS that got laid off in this part of texas thanks to that..........

employment went up with clinton and down with bush. im sorry to hear about your isolated incident but people lose jobs when stuff closes, just the way things work.

[Lohman446]

no he just commited warcrimes against civilian populations by launching armed biological weapons(wich are illegal under international law) into curdish towns. no heinous crimes in that. i mean, there werent men hanged at nuremberg for just as bad............

if slaughtering civilian populations with nerve agents and bio weapons isnt heinous, you may want to reasses your moralistic outlook on life man.....

in reality, the UN and NATO violated there own laws and treatys by not arresting the man as soon as he did that. The man was just as bad as any other dictator in the world has ever been, he was just contained

I'm confused... what do you mean? Your first and second paragraphs seem to be insupportive of each other. I acknowledged those heinous crimes - reread what I wrote. I also acknowledged the reality of fundamentalism and the Iraqi government (under Saddam) religious tolerance - not great tolerance, but better than others like say Saudi.

Come one people.. evil people sometimes do things that are beneficial, that could be called good just as overall "good" people commit evil acts from time to time (or may). Lets not get so caught up in one side and agenda that we ignore reality and historical truths.

[Jakedubbleya]

I'm confused... what do you mean? Your first and second paragraphs seem to be insupportive of each other. I acknowledged those heinous crimes - reread what I wrote. I also acknowledged the reality of fundamentalism and the Iraqi government (under Saddam) religious tolerance - not great tolerance, but better than others like say Saudi.

Come one people.. evil people sometimes do things that are beneficial, that could be called good just as overall "good" people commit evil acts from time to time (or may). Lets not get so caught up in one side and agenda that we ignore reality and historical truths.

So his SLIGHT leniency to religions, basically because he wasnt religious himself, excuses the stuff he did?

Id have-to say HELL NO to that one. bad example bro.

(a good example might be something like the spainish conquering america)