I'm sure there's one computer geek here...

[FooTemps]

Alright, I'm building a new system for next year and I'm pulling out all the stops. 2000-ish budget. The only restriction is that it is a small form factor system. (for some odd reason i just can't stand having laptops)

Alright, having that settled... I'm looking to build an AMD64 system (duh, who wouldn't these days) that has pci-e (most likely a 7800GTX) and is watercooled. That's a lot for a form factor system but others have managed so I figured that I can too.

I'm thinking either a Shuttle SN25P or IWill ZMAXDP (the dual opterons is cool enough to warrant the use of AGP instead of PCI-E) or an antec aria using any dual core compatible mobo.

The aria will most likely be the cheapest, followed by the shuttle. The ZMaxDP is most likely going to cost in the 2500's if I build it and it is slightly outdated hardware.

Hopefully I'm looking to get a dual core A64 but dual core still doesn't seem to be mainstream enough yet. Still, I'd like to use an A64x2 4200+ or 4400+.

Any suggestions for hardware, tips, or information will be helpful.

[Dayspring]

The 7800GTX isn't in AGP yet from what I read. That may change, but currently there are no plans for it.

[NJPaint]

The 7800GTX will not come in AGP form since it is so powerful that it can't be utilized unless its in a PCI-E slot, it is the first card to make the bus the bottleneck. As for building a shuttle... Have you ever done this before? Have you ever built a liquid cooled system before? I've done both and the two together. It is really really really hard. Also, most water cooling components won't fit into your standard shuttle and you may have to put things outside of it, which ruins the purpose of the shuttle. I recommend using a mid-tower instead. You will have more liquid in the system and thus better cooling (I can explain what I mean), which you WILL need with a high end AMD64 + 7800GTX. I've run benchmarking on a 7800GTX already, its on hot mofo! (but who can say no to HL2 and D3 at 1600x1200 and full settings :o). I'll post more when I get to work, but I gotta run for now.

[FooTemps]

I knew about the 7800gtx not being agp. I was just saying that the dual opterons makes it worth not having a pci-e gfx card.

As for watercooling, never put it inside a shuttle. I had watercooling in my current system for a couple weeks for benchmarking but the top of cpu block is cracked and I'm too lazy to build a new one so I went back to air cooling. As for putting the watercooling outside of the shuttle. I was already planning to build an extention on top or off the side panel of the case.What I'd like to do is locate the res and rad on the side/top of the case. That way I'd have enough room for a smaller pump and my drives.

NJPaint: how does the PSU hold up for the shuttle? Which one are you using? Right now I'm more concerned with powering the system. Also, do you have any experience with the mag drive 12v dc pumps? (like the d4, aquaextreme mag, mcp pumps)

[NJPaint]

Dual Operons will not make up for lack of PCI-E, this is the concept of bottlenecking. More extreme example for the purpose of making a point: If you have a PIII 733, there will be no difference when gaming between a GF3 Ti500 and a GF4 or GF5, I know because I tried it. Once you max out one of the components thats the end of gaining performance. That having been said, the reason why they don't plan to make the 7800GTX AGP is because AGP will limit its capabilites and it would be much better to just buy a 6800 (whatever extentions go after it). Also, keep in mind that a 7800GTX will cost you $600 and will not be top of the line in a year.

Next, what do you mean by dual operons? Do you mean you want to get an AMD X2 or actually two physical AMD 64 Operon chips? In either case, neither of those setups are ideal for gaming or high end stuff. You should be looking to get an FX line chip for that. The X2 is not aimed at the gamers market and shows little if any improvement over a normal AMD64 chip when games are benchmarked. Here is a good diagram for what I mean:



If you are watercooling, heat should not be an issue, do NOT get an X2 for gaming, read more about it first: HardOCP Review.

I like the ST20G5, I really do. Its a good case and it does knock out the MSI K8N NEO4, which is my current favorite. As for the PSU, it should be fine, it was designed for systems like this, it is a high quality piece that is meant for a high end AMD64 system. ST20G5 also comes with PCI-E btw.

Edit: after re-reading I know you want X2 (YOU REALLY DON'T! )

[NJPaint]

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzgx

^^^ ST20G5 review. As for my shuttle, I honestly can't remember, it was a project computer that I built for my brother who sold it about 3 months ago.

[FooTemps]

No, i'm really looking for an x2

Not only do I game but I do video editing and 3d/CAM work. (though it is only for hobby use) According the review, I can play games while I wait for things to render! (good for me! haha)

And for the opterons, i know that it would perform worse. It's just the cool factor of having a dual opteron system in an SFF. I wasn't really seriously considering it unless IWill came out with their new ZMax system that is SLi and Dual core compatible. Dual dual-core opterons with dual 7800GTX?!?!? mmm sexy. (I could buy a car with that money)

edit: More questions!

About your wc shuttle build... What did you use in it? (just curious)

[SIGSays]

yo.. i heard about these slim drives... you can fit 2-3 in the place of one.. so instead of having on dvd-r ... you can slide in a dvd-rom and a dvd-r... but it takes a little bit of time to build it..

[kosmo]

Err, ya, theyre laptop drives. Pretty pricey, and you need to get an adapter to plug them in.