define: Ignorant

[Target Practice]

oh yeah? when was the last time you checked?

Just now, thank you very much.

[trains are bad]

I think it's funny how people associate a confederate flag shirt immediatly with 'racism'. If I was to assume someone in this scenerio was a racist, I wouldn't suspect the shirt wearer first.

[Kai]

Vigilantism is the best crime ever.

[TheTramp]

I think it's funny how people associate a confederate flag shirt immediatly with 'racism'. If I was to assume someone in this scenerio was a racist, I wouldn't suspect the shirt wearer first.

I assume you are reffering only to the front of the shirt.

[Lohman446]

I think it's funny how people associate a confederate flag shirt immediatly with 'racism'. If I was to assume someone in this scenerio was a racist, I wouldn't suspect the shirt wearer first.

I'm assuming you did not bother to read the entirety of the first post before deciding to respond, here let me help you

OK, So i was listening to the radio this morning and heard a story about a senior in HS wearing a 'questionable' t-shirt in school, being confronted, and getting has kicked.

Turns out he wore a shirt with the confederate flag on the front and the words "Keep it flying"

Now I am not going to get into the argument over that, the back had a bunch of white hooded folks in front of a burning church with a car driving away with the 'Just Married' sign and dragging two noosed black guys instead of cans.

Racists? Sure... Is the kid racist? No, according to him and I qoute:
"I ain't racist. There are just some people I don't get along with, and I don't like. Black people just happen to be one of them. But I ain't no racist!"

I feel so sorry for some people. I mean, the black kid that asked him nicely to take the shirt off and then kicked his when he refused - he got suspended, too. How sad.
(edited for AO TOS guidelines)

[TheDuelist]

Its pretty clear what the confederate flag stood when the Confederacy was founded. It represented an attempt to found a nation whihc supported, whole heartedly, slavery. The person may be ignorant of history but the flag is a well established symbol of what that part of history stood for.

[Lohman446]

Its pretty clear what the confederate flag stood when the Confederacy was founded. It represented an attempt to found a nation whihc supported, whole heartedly, slavery. The person may be ignorant of history but the flag is a well established symbol of what that part of history stood for.

I would argue that the confederacy, while supporting slavery, stood for stronger state rights and less intrusive federal government, but I guess you can simplify it to hot button issues if you want . It seems to be the way to look smart to all your friends... oversimplify to terms that ones position on is obvious in todays world - kind of interesting that such a simplistic view point designed basically around sound bites should appear in this thread.

[TheDuelist]

Its clearly established within their constitution.

Article 4
Section 2

Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

[Lohman446]

Its clearly established within their constitution.

Article 4
Section 2

http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/csa.constitution.html

Your basing that entire documents purpose on that quote - what is it, about 1/50th of the document - what about the part that actually limits where slaves may be brought in from? If I take consideration of single paragraphs and ignore the others I could argue they were discussing limiting the slave trade (not historically true but you understand what I am getting at I assume).

[Jeffy-CanCon]

It's true that the union did not start fighting for the purpose of freeing the slaves, but concern for the future of that institution was clearly on the minds of the seccesionists. Article IV, Section 3 in particular, clearly was included as a response to the issues immediately leading to the split.

On the original topic...

It amazes me that a person could wear a shirt like that, and make the statement that he is not racist. Or that he cannot see the inherent contradiction in his own statements that (a) he doesn't like black people, but (b) he isn't racist.

[Resurection]

It's true that the union did not start fighting for the purpose of freeing the slaves, but concern for the future of that institution was clearly on the minds of the seccesionists. Article IV, Section 3 in particular, clearly was included as a response to the issues immediately leading to the split.

Well - to go with what Lohman was saying, it is a VERY unfortunate MISUNDERSTANDING that the symbolism of the Confederate Flag is solely racial/slavery oriented. However, what the original purpose and what the common understanding is are two VERY different things.

ie - the word '***' - by definition a bundle of twigs or sticks.
- by common (pop culture) understanding - a gay guy

ie - a swatztika (sp?) - by origins, a tibetian good luck charm
- made popular and current recognized meaning - nazi party

Time sways all perceptions. Remember: History is written by the winners, and time will always change the perspective of how things are/were. And don't forget that all truth is a matter of personal perception.

It amazes me that a person could wear a shirt like that, and make the statement that he is not racist. Or that he cannot see the inherent contradiction in his own statements that (a) he doesn't like black people, but (b) he isn't racist.

...thus exactly why I nominate this kid to be the new definition of ignorant.

[tropical_fishy]

ie - a swatztika (sp?) - by origins, a tibetian good luck charm
- made popular and current recognized meaning - nazi party

I hate to nitpick, but a swastika was other religion's first. It represented the sun. The actual word comes from some archaic Sanskrit word.

I read this argument on another site. If a girl wears the playboy bunny emblem on her clothes, what are you automatically gonna think of her? That she's either very sexually active or advertising herself to be, right?

If you're wearing the Confederate Flag, you're either racist or advertising yourself to be. Now, I'm okay with that (not with racism, with people wearing the flag if that's what they want to advertise) but let's not pretend that when people see that flag, they don't think of slavery and all the issues that came with it.

I guess I'll just say it this way. While the Confederate flag seems to be free to fly over KKK meetings, I've yet to see it at a peace rally.

[Kai]

I would argue that the confederacy, while supporting slavery, stood for stronger state rights and less intrusive federal government, but I guess you can simplify it to hot button issues if you want .

I lol'ed.

[TheDuelist]

Perception what it is the confederate flag represents a nation founded under the precept to preserve the right to own slaves. Granted it wasn't the only notion the nation was founded on and I understand that, however the flag of a nation is a very powerful thing. I would remind you of the flag being raised over Mount Surabachi or over Ground Zero on 9/11. These are some very powerful images. Its not like a nation says "oh this looks good" and throws some scraps of cloth together. The flags are established with meaning and purpose behind them. Whatever the original intent of that meaning its how the nation represents itself to the world that will decide how it is going to be received.

Regardless of the original intent of the confederate flag when it was established it is currently viewed as a symbol of a nation which fought to preserve the right to own another human being. The constitution, as it was written, is a direct representation of what the nation stood for at the time. There is clearly more than one reference to the slave issue within the document. I pulled out the section specifically regarding the ownership of slaves and the fact that no law shall be written that would impair a persons right to own a slave.

I understand what you are saying with regards of pick ing and choosing a few lines within the document but we're talking about something which establishes precedent for an entire nation. It wasn't an opinion it was a law written into their constitution. In my opinion it is relevant and is no less valid a reason for basing an opinion regarding what the flag stands for.

[Target Practice]

I hate to nitpick, but a swastika was Egyptian first. It represented the sun. The actual word comes from some archaic Sanskrit word.

Actually, it has its roots in Indian and Vedic history, not Egyptian.