Florida- shoot first law

[Lohman446]

Under this law that's NOT true. You can shoot to kill if someone is committing a forcible felony, and you FEEL threatened. I can feel threatened if someone comes after me with a swiss army knife on my property. Should I be allowed to shoot and kill them? Shoot TO kill them? I'd say no, but if you think so... remind me not to break into your house .

BS - reasonably beleived they represented a threat to your immediate safety (and yes, someone committing a forceable felony against you would be reason to beleive). Its nto what YOU feel threatened by its what a reasonable person feels threatened by. You can ignore that part of it all you want, but its not what you beleive if what you beleive is not reasonable.

[Target Practice]

I can feel threatened if someone comes after me with a swiss army knife on my property. Should I be allowed to shoot and kill them? Shoot TO kill them?

Then what WOULD you do, if you would not shoot them? And, if you WOULD shoot them, why shoot them if not to kill?

[Lohman446]

Then what WOULD you do, if you would not shoot them? And, if you WOULD shoot them, why shoot them if not to kill?

I would never shoot to kill As advised in my state madated class I will "shoot until the threat is no longer a threat"...

[Target Practice]

I would never shoot to kill As advised in my state madated class I will "shoot until the threat is no longer a threat"...

Same thing.

[SCpoloRicker]

I just can't seem to make those two statements make sense together...

Originally Posted by Jaan
. The guy who decided to follow me and teach me a lesson was the one who made a mistake. I ran that jerk into someones front lawn (I was trying to wrap him around a telephone pole) ...



Quote:
Your grandfather is absolutely wrong. A mistake is one thing, but deliberately hunting someone down is WAAAAAAAY over the line. Who the hell does your grandfather think he is? Does he think he's better than everyone else? That's the problem with guys like your grandfather ... they think that the creator endowed them with special powers. Sorry to burst your bubble, but your grandfather is a flawed human being prone to mistakes just like the rest of us. It's too bad he has a small penis.

Whurred. Jaan is indeed confusing me as well.

[tropical_fishy]

BS - reasonably beleived they represented a threat to your immediate safety (and yes, someone committing a forceable felony against you would be reason to beleive). Its nto what YOU feel threatened by its what a reasonable person feels threatened by. You can ignore that part of it all you want, but its not what you beleive if what you beleive is not reasonable.

You don't seem to get that I agree with you. If it were me or you or pretty much anyone else in this thread following this law I wouldn't have a problem with it. I have a problem with trigger-happy jerks having another excuse to pull the trigger, be it a law designed for the public good or not. I don't believe in gun control. I DO believe that when you're behind a gun, you should be responsible for what happens when you pull the trigger... and as much as I'd like to say "you can't be a complete moron and own a gun," I know that's not feasible, so I'd prefer laws that require the person with the gun to shoulder the responsibility for what they do with a gun.

If someone is attacking you, physically threatening you, and you're afraid for your life, what jury is going to convict you of murder or manslaughter? Why is this law necessary?

[Target Practice]

If someone is attacking you, physically threatening you, and you're afraid for your life, what jury is going to convict you of murder or manslaughter? Why is this law necessary?

Why rely on hoping a jury would let you off if you can have a law that safeguards your right to defend yourself?

[ShooterJM]

Should I be allowed to shoot and kill them? Shoot TO kill them? I'd say no, but if you think so... remind me not to break into your house .

And that's the whole point....

[trains are bad]

Precisely. I'll never understand people that sympathize with evil. If someone kills someone unjustly they are still gonig to go to trial and go to jail for it. Personally I think it should be legal to use lethal force to defend property in certain cases as well. An armed society is a polite society.

To show you how radical I am, I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em. -Nugent

[Jaan]

Jaan: i was ready to defend my points, and argue with you about all of this, untill i realized your a simple child. Your post shows it, discussing the penis size of a dead war vet. Yeah good for you, you ran a jerk off the road, the guy was wrong. However if you havent noticed there are many dumb people on the road. When in a two ton SUV they think they are big shots who can do anything, but when confronted with a good old fist the turn into chicken crap.

OKay, maybe I was a bit harsh, but perhaps it's not too late for you to try to understand ... some self righteous vigilante tried to "teach me a lesson" because he though I deserved it. Have you ever had to defend your life? How close have you been to being killed? I'm sorry, but it hit close to home. Words mean nothing ... death, that's pretty permanent.

You say that people should be allowed to act like idiots with complete immunity?

I never said that. However, I still think physically assaulting another person because they didn't "apologise" for some perceived injustice is plain wrong.

My little brother is a prison guard ... that place is full of people who stood up for themselves with violence.

I believe that is what has gotten this nation into problems in the first place. We say "hey what im doing is wrong, but not illegal (or a minor offense), so screw you, touch me and i will press charges".

So what's a better alternative? Hanging a black man from a tree because he looked at a white woman the wrong way? How many times has that happened, 1000 ... 10,000 ... more? There are people alive now who can still remember that time in our history.

So now a decent person, who may have been wronged, must bite their pride and go home feeling the shame of not standing up for themselves.

Pride is not one of the seven righteous virtues ... it's one of the seven deadly sins. I'm not religious, but pride can get you in a whole lot of trouble and I'm not the only one who can see that.

If you ask me their is nothing more American that slugging an Idiot in a manner where both parties are on equal footing.

Many courts recognise something along the lines of "mutually agreed upon combat". You weren't talking about that, you were talking about chasing someone down and assaulting them if they didn't appease you ... that's another story entirely.

Why? I dont know maybe i played to much cowboys and indians when i was young. But KILLING a person, because you pissed them off and felt threatened? If your a jerk you deserve to be, and therefor feel threatened! and you should not have the right to KILL someone, you understand dead right? just cause you wet your little panties!

Replace "killing" and "kill" with "beating the crap out of" and you and I agree completely.

You don't have the right to beat someone up because they piss you off any more than you have the right to kill them for the same reason. Maybe it would be better to go back to a world where black men were hanging from trees like ornaments for sitting at the front of the bus and women would be smacked around for being uppity, but I sure don't think so.

I was going to ask you where do you draw the line, but I realized the community has already done that. That's what laws are for. It's far from being perfect but it's the best we has so far.

Tell me, just out of curiousity ... when you played Cowboys and Indians, were you ever an Indian? Did you play "rape my wife and kill my children because we're not human to you"?

[Jaan]

You are a complete and absolute jerk. A sorry excuse for a human being.

I love you too.

The grandfather does one small offense that is wrong.

It sounded like a long pattern of violence, but OKay ...

Being a vigilante for a minor offense and commmiting battery to enforce his views.

Your a bigger jerk because you want to enforce your views (which can be just as mistaken and misguided) by enforcing them with justified murder.

I have NEVER, in my adult life, ever once felt the need to "enforce my views" with physical violence. Chase my 61 year old Dad down and try to beat him up for any reason whatsoever, then you've crossed the line. It's as basic as that.

You still haven't answered my question about Columbine in the other thread....

My life doesn't revolve around you. You've flamed me a couple of times and I've let it go and not gotten into a flame war with you. Take that any way you want. Take it as a victory and make yourself feel happy ... I don't care about you, or what you think. You simply don't matter to me.

[hardr0ck68]

[Lohman446]

I have NEVER, in my adult life, ever once felt the need to "enforce my views" with physical violence. .

The guy who decided to follow me and teach me a lesson was the one who made a mistake. I ran that jerk into someones front lawn (I was trying to wrap him around a telephone pole) ...

I have a hard time reconciling those two statements

[SlartyBartFast]

I have a hard time reconciling those two statements

I agree.

Jaan, no offense but you seen a little schitzoid.

From both this and the other thread you seem to be vehemently on both sides of the debate. You really aren't being very clear or consistent.

[Miscue]

Trigger Happy - Weird Al Yankovic --- If you don't know the tune... there's a sample here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...03062?v=glance


Got an AK-47, well you know it makes me feel alright
Got an Uzi by my pillow, helps me sleep a little better at night
There's no feeling any greater
Than to shoot first and ask questions later
Now I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

Well, you can't take my guns away, I got a constitutional right
Yeah, I gotta be ready if the Commies attack us tonight
I'll blow their brains out with my Smith and Wesson
That ought to teach them all a darn good lesson
Now I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

(Oh yeah, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh baby, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh I'm so)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
Better watch out, punk, or I'm gonna have to blow you away

Oh, I accidently shot daddy last night in the den
I mistook him in the dark for a drug-crazed Nazi again
Now why'd you have to get so mad?
It was just a lousy flesh wound, Dad
You know, I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

Oh, I still haven't figured out the safety on my rifle yet
Little Fluffy took a round, better take him to the vet
I filled that kitty cat so full of lead
We'll have to use him for a pencil instead
Well, I'm so trigger happy, trigger happy every day

(Oh yeah, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh baby, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh I'm so)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
Better watch out, punk, or I'm gonna have to blow you away

Come on and grab your ammo
What have you got to lose?
We'll all get liquored up
And shoot at anything that moves

Got a brand new semi-automatic weapon with a laser sight
Oh, I'm prayin' somebody tries to break in here tonight
I always keep a Magnum in my trunk
You better ask yourself, do you feel lucky, punk?
Because I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day

(Oh yeah, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh baby, I'm)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
(Oh I'm so)trigger, trigger happy
Yes I'm trigger, trigger happy
Better watch out, punk, or I'm gonna have to blow you away