Social Commentary In This Thread

[Recon by Fire]

FYI:

Enlistment Oath

In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

In the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, _________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of ___________________________________ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ________________________ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

Note: The last words, "So help me God," are optional, depending on the individual's personal religious preferences.

[Recon by Fire]

Take note of the "domestic" part. You are not sworn to protect the citizens per say, but it pretty much goes along with the idea of it all. Now if those same citizens get out of whack and become domestic problems, they will be defended against

I'm working under Dept. of Homeland Security right now and I guarentee you as a citizen if you are acting exceptionally stupid you will not like the outcome we are authorized to use against you.



TropicalFishy; it's not the and eye coordination...it's the two finger typing that gets me

[kosmo]

My problem with police is that there is a disgustingly large amount of them that are cops because they either enjoy the rush they get from the job, or they enjoy telling people what to do. It is rare that you find someone who honestly deep down became a cop because they wanted to do the right thing all the time every time. I have heard, seen, and been involved in many incidents where police officers blatantly have been abusive and/or corrupt. I just got a cop fired last month as a matter of fact. He really deserved a lot more than to lose his job though. But like I said, I dont think we dont need cops. But as long as we have cops there will be too many bad ones. And its not that I dont sympathize with how youve been backed into a corner, I just still dont think that gives anyone the excuse to pull the kind of crap that Ive seen. Its inexcusable under any circumstance.

[Recon by Fire]

As with any group; you are going to get some bad apples in there.

[tropical_fishy]

My problem with police is that there is a disgustingly large amount of them that are cops because they either enjoy the rush they get from the job, or they enjoy telling people what to do. It is rare that you find someone who honestly deep down became a cop because they wanted to do the right thing all the time every time. I have heard, seen, and been involved in many incidents where police officers blatantly have been abusive and/or corrupt. I just got a cop fired last month as a matter of fact. He really deserved a lot more than to lose his job though. But like I said, I dont think we dont need cops. But as long as we have cops there will be too many bad ones. And its not that I dont sympathize with how youve been backed into a corner, I just still dont think that gives anyone the excuse to pull the kind of crap that Ive seen. Its inexcusable under any circumstance.

I agree with you, but at the same time, I don't think there's ANYONE out there who does the right thing all the time, every time. There are good cops who do bad things. I'm willing to give a good cop who made a mistake a break. Are you?

I do understand your point though. It takes a special person to be able to function well in a position of power and not become corrupt as a result. I think the police force attracts people who would have the proclivity to abusing power-- because a policeman has a substantial amount of power over his fellow citizens.

[thefuzz]

We don't need cops? Ha! No offense but you're either 13 or dumber than a door-nail.

What's gonna happen when your house gets broken into? Nothing

What's gonna happen when you get robbed at gunpoint by a crackhead? Nothing

What's gonna happen when you get shot and killed over $10 you got in your wallet? Nothing

What's gonna happen when the same happens to a family member? Nothing

Who's gonna stop the guys with fast sports cars from running over kids because they're not paying attention? Noone

Who's gonna stop people from driving home drunk and killing your family? Noone


Yes there's a rush to being a police offier and yes many of them are adrenaline junkies. Guess what? You're lucky there are people like that or you wouldn't have people who are willing to enter a house with an NRA reject inside who's holding his family hostage. Foot chases, car chases, and fights are exciting. You feel good when you catch someone or subdue them and take them to jail.

Oh you must be an anarchist? People will follow the rules if society makes them and through public humiliation? People don't give a . People don't care what other people think. People don't have their priorities straight when it comes to life. Those people live in a $300 a month apartment, barely have any food, but hey they have their big screen TV! Those people keep having kids because more kids they have, the bigger their welfare check. People are stupid. People won't conform to society because others tell them to. Some people's society is selling drugs, doing drive-bys, etc.

You want to see what would happen with no police? Look at New Orleans during Katrina. People looting, people killing, people not caring about what the police or military was doing. "Who's going to feed me?" came from almost everyone's mouth down there. A lot of people don't take responsibility of themselves. Its easier to sit back and let the government do everything for you instead of working hard and achieving something. That, my friend, is scarier than a lawless society.

[SCpoloRicker]

What's gonna happen when your house gets broken into? Nothing

What's gonna happen when you get robbed at gunpoint by a crackhead? Nothing

What's gonna happen when you get shot and killed over $10 you got in your wallet? Nothing

What's gonna happen when the same happens to a family member? Nothing

Who's gonna stop the guys with fast sports cars from running over kids because they're not paying attention? Noone

Who's gonna stop people from driving home drunk and killing your family? Noone

Uh, I tend to agree with you, but no cop is pre-emptively stopping any of these from happening. You may come fill out a report, you may track someone down and prosecute, but l.e. doesn't prevent these things from happening.

We don't need cops? Ha! No offense but you're either 13 or dumber than a door-nail.

Probably both... we get that a lot around here.

/best friend is a cop
//been burglarized several times
///cool username

[shartley]

Uh, I tend to agree with you, but no cop is pre-emptively stopping any of these from happening. You may come fill out a report, you may track someone down and prosecute, but l.e. doesn't prevent these things from happening.

/best friend is a cop
//been burglarized several times
///cool username

[kosmo]

Dumber than a door nail? Im not the one who cant read. And I quote:

I dont think we dont need cops.

And Im not an anarchist, Im a realist. And realistically, true anarchy would be the best thing a society could achieve. It would never happen however, and so we are stuck with things like 12 randomly chosen and highly unqualified idiots deciding if a person lives or dies based on stories presented to them by 2 opposing professional liars. And anti gay legislation because person A is offended that person B and C want to marry each other, when it is as a matter of fact none of their freaking business. And then person A goes and protests at my friends funeral proclaiming that god had muslims smite him in Iraq because he let persons B and C be gay. And overzealous police officers who drag my sleeping friend from a car and club him because they think they can get away with it, because they wear a badge. And a presidential administration hell-bent on ignoring the constitution and geneva convention because its a "matter of national security", when that is specifically why those measures were put into place.

And fishy, as far as your question goes, it really depends on the situation. Most of the time, I am going to have to say absolutely not. The role of a police officer is to serve and protect. Their role in society as a rule is, for the lack of a better word, subservient. By putting on that badge, you are placing both other peoples lives, and the obligation to protect those lives, over your own. If you as a police officer are placed in a situation where you are not 100% sure that you are in the right by pulling that trigger, and an innocent person dies because you were protecting your life over theirs, then that is wrong.

/queue rant from thefuzz

[Boski51]

Kosmo;

I would love for you to explain this statement more fully: "And Im not an anarchist, Im a realist. And realistically, true anarchy would be the best thing a society could achieve."

As a political science educated professional and former Marine, I would enjoy reading your thoughts on how anarchy is the best form of a government for a society.

[kosmo]

Well I couldve phrased that a little better. But what I mean by that is that successful anarchy is, in essence, world peace. For a society to achieve it would mean that there is no need for a governing body to tell people to do the right thing because they will do it without being told. Which is why it will never happen.

[SCpoloRicker]

Well I couldve phrased that a little better. But what I mean by that is that successful anarchy is, in essence, world peace. For a society to achieve it would mean that there is no need for a governing body to tell people to do the right thing because they will do it without being told. Which is why it will never happen.

*scratches forehead*

[Boski51]

Well I couldve phrased that a little better. But what I mean by that is that successful anarchy is, in essence, world peace. For a society to achieve it would mean that there is no need for a governing body to tell people to do the right thing because they will do it without being told. Which is why it will never happen.

So your talking about a utopian society where everyone knows and follows the golden rule as it were.

Your right, in a fallen world like this one, it's never going to happen. But just maybe.....

[Recon by Fire]

Well I couldve phrased that a little better. But what I mean by that is that successful anarchy is, in essence, world peace. For a society to achieve it would mean that there is no need for a governing body to tell people to do the right thing because they will do it without being told. Which is why it will never happen.

So until then, we do need social structures and governments that enforce codes of behavior (laws) fill that role. So the anarchy/utopian point is rather moot.

[thefuzz]

So until then, we do need social structures and governments that enforce codes of behavior (laws) fill that role. So the anarchy/utopian point is rather moot.

If you read up on true Anarchy you will see that its been done before a thing such as a nation existed. Anarchism still exists in some parts of Africa where everyone in the "town" has a specific job and all food and resources is distributed equally. If someone is not pulling their weight, they're brought up in front of the whole "town" and confronted about not pulling their weight. This is deemed punishment enough because there are no leaders in an Anarchist style of government to hand out a more severe punishment. Basically it will never work and is an unatainable goal. If it did happen, another nation would sweep in and take that one over with little or no efford because of the lack of organization. If the Anarchists do rise up, natural selection will make leaders.

We, as humans, strive to be better than our neighbor...we don't strive to be the same as everyone else (which is what Anarchy is). We strive to win, we strive to own the best, we strive to be the best. Remember that Microsoft commercial where the kids sit around and say, "I dream of being middle management." Noone strives to be average, they strive to be better than average. You have people killing kids over a nice pair of shoes because they strive to have it. You have people burglarizing homes because they want to have whats in it to be better. You have people going to college and getting an education in hopes to better themselves. Again Anarchy will never work because of the very idea that humans naturally want to be better.

The Utopian society you speak of will never exist. There will never be "World Peace." There will always be conflict, there will always be war, there will always be death and killing. You can't have one without the other. I hate to be cliche but the Ying and the Yang. If there were only peace, noone would know what peace was beacuse there would be nothing else to compare it to. In essence peace would cease to exist because noone would know what conflict was. So the Utopian society with "World Peace" is an oxymoron.