Firearm Question

[Target Practice]

Those new Berettas are disgusting.

[MoeMag]

Those new Berettas are disgusting.

Oh no...
I feel the orly's are going to attack this guy.

Seriously though, why do you not like them? Other than the CX4 I haven't seen the new ones. Are they suffering in quality or something?

[Recon by Fire]

I don't understand the detractors to the Storm. It is what it is, a pistol caliber carbine! Does a AR 9mm carbine perform any better? I think not! Does any other semi pistol carbine do something different, including the MP5's? Nope. God forbid anyone challenge the over priced MP5! It doesn't perform any different. It is what it is folks, that's all.

[Steelrat]

No, I meant the RX4.



And the storm does not compare to an mp-5, sorry. When I was favoring the ar carbine over the storm, I meant the 5.56 ar version, not the 9mm .

[Target Practice]

Oh no...
I feel the orly's are going to attack this guy.

Seriously though, why do you not like them? Other than the CX4 I haven't seen the new ones. Are they suffering in quality or something?

Because they look like trash. I don't think Beretta has ever put out an asthetically please firearm. Give me the lines of an AR or an HK any day.

[MoeMag]

No, I meant the RX4.



And the storm does not compare to an mp-5, sorry. When I was favoring the ar carbine over the storm, I meant the 5.56 ar version, not the 9mm .

Never seen one of those before. Thanks for showing me. How did that get past me!?

Don't get me wrong folks, I really like the AR-15 derivatives. Its just I personally like the 9mm round in a small compact carbine, that looks like something out of star trek (battlestar galactica in this case). If I got a MP5/AR-15 you are absolutely right I would get one chambered in a rifle round.

I don't think Beretta has ever put out an asthetically please firearm.

How can you say that!?
have a look

The Diana Side by side

[Recon by Fire]

Steelratt, I think you are comparing apples and oranges. Pistol cartridge carbines and rifle caliber carbines and/or rifles are two different things.

MP5's are nice but again you are comparing a SMG with fire modes to a semi carbine. Leave the MP5 in semi and there is not much difference in performance. Not to mention a bit of a price difference of about $14K+ between the two.

Okay, just looked up the cost of a semi version MP5, the HK94. About $3-3.5K, so we are still talking five if not six times the cost of the Storm. There is nothing the HK94 can do that I cannot do with the Storm, I will keep it and my savings.

[Steelrat]

Steelratt, I think you are comparing apples and oranges. Pistol cartridge carbines and rifle caliber carbines and/or rifles are two different things.

MP5's are nice but again you are comparing a SMG with fire modes to a semi carbine. Leave the MP5 in semi and there is not much difference in performance. Not to mention a bit of a price difference of about $14K+ between the two.

Okay, just looked up the cost of a semi version MP5, the HK94. About $3-3.5K, so we are still talking five if not six times the cost of the Storm. There is nothing the HK94 can do that I cannot do with the Storm, I will keep it and my savings.

I already said it was good for plinking. Geeez. But it sucks for a defense weapon, which was my point. If you are going to depend on a long gun to save your life, it better be a full-auto pistol cartridge or a full-on rifle cartridge. If I want a sami-auto pistol caliber defense weapon, I'll use a handgun, which is much handier than the storm.

[Recon by Fire]

If I want a sami-auto pistol caliber defense weapon, I'll use a handgun, which is much handier than the storm.

But it is easier to rifle butt than pistol whip


I disagree on the defensive purpose but I understand your points. I just cannot see going wrong with a Storm for cost/performance ratio. Hell if cost was not a factor, just go with one of these:

[Lohman446]

I already said it was good for plinking. Geeez. But it sucks for a defense weapon, which was my point. If you are going to depend on a long gun to save your life, it better be a full-auto pistol cartridge or a full-on rifle cartridge. If I want a sami-auto pistol caliber defense weapon, I'll use a handgun, which is much handier than the storm.

If it was an MP5 chambered in 9MM we would all be going nuts over it. The balistic characteristics of some pistol rounds in carbines is actually pretty impressive, and may provide better close range stopping power than a 223 or similar round. Think of the purpose, close range with consideration given to overpenetration. One may find that some of the pistol cartridges serve the purpose ideally. Again, some of us are in situations where a shotgun is not an ideal answer. My Mac-11 carbine might serve a purpose one day, though I find for gun retention reasons that I favor a pistol in a household situation others may feel more confident in there abilities with a carbine.

When people discuss a rifle for home defense, what are you discussing? It would seem to me the really good rounds at close range are going to present overpentration issues. I would be willing to consider shy of 50 yards that my Sig with Federal Hydrashocks has better stopping characteristics on a human size target than my .270 with ballistic tipped hollowpoints.

[Steelrat]

If it was an MP5 chambered in 9MM we would all be going nuts over it. The balistic characteristics of some pistol rounds in carbines is actually pretty impressive, and may provide better close range stopping power than a 223 or similar round. Think of the purpose, close range with consideration given to overpenetration. One may find that some of the pistol cartridges serve the purpose ideally. Again, some of us are in situations where a shotgun is not an ideal answer. My Mac-11 carbine might serve a purpose one day, though I find for gun retention reasons that I favor a pistol in a household situation others may feel more confident in there abilities with a carbine.

When people discuss a rifle for home defense, what are you discussing? It would seem to me the really good rounds at close range are going to present overpentration issues. I would be willing to consider shy of 50 yards that my Sig with Federal Hydrashocks has better stopping characteristics on a human size target than my .270 with ballistic tipped hollowpoints.

You should research the penetration of 5.56 versus 9mm, you might be surprised.

Nothing is wrong with a Storm, it just doesn't do anything that a pistol can't do, IMHO. But I'd take one for plinking at the range.

[Lohman446]

You should research the penetration of 5.56 versus 9mm, you might be surprised.

Nothing is wrong with a Storm, it just doesn't do anything that a pistol can't do, IMHO. But I'd take one for plinking at the range.

It does offer better balistics out of the longer barrel from the same round compared to a pistol. I don't know, I think people are too quick to downplay the "pistol" round carbines and there usefullness as close range defense weapons.

[ThisStarNeverFalls]

Seems this thread has gotten pretty darn interesting, I have a question though as far as a firearm goes for a first buy..there are alot of them I like but i just feel it would be better to start as cheap as possible, and then upgrade from there when I get used to shooting and etc. Ive yes its sad and ghetto, but ive been looking at maybe picking up a cheap rifle or shotgun from like walmart, getting used to shooting, and then moving up to something nicer in a month or two...bad idea, or should I just go for buying the nice in the beginning?

[Lohman446]

Seems this thread has gotten pretty darn interesting, I have a question though as far as a firearm goes for a first buy..there are alot of them I like but i just feel it would be better to start as cheap as possible, and then upgrade from there when I get used to shooting and etc. Ive yes its sad and ghetto, but ive been looking at maybe picking up a cheap rifle or shotgun from like walmart, getting used to shooting, and then moving up to something nicer in a month or two...bad idea, or should I just go for buying the nice in the beginning?

Something like a Ruger 10/22 is reasonably cheap, readily available, and most every gun owner has one (ok, that might be a little far). There a good "starter" gun that is worth keeping, and cheap to shoot. As to a shotgun, a decent Mossberg or Remington will serve your purpose as a starter gun and for some time in the future as a hunter if you decide to. Well they may not be great to fit in with the others for a skeet or clay target shotgun, they will get the job done. I would stay away from the ultra cheap off brand guns...

[SlartyBartFast]

there are alot of them I like