Question for Army, edweird, devildog, etc. . . .

[Remington]

I was recently working on my garage and was lucky enough to look up and see two C-130's and three V-22 Osprey's flying in loose formation overhead. My question is: When did the Osprey's finally enter service? I remember not too long ago that they were still having problems with the aircraft (I also seem to remember several Marines being killed in a crash) during the hover-to-flight transition. Has the Osprey actually entered service, or were the three that I saw out running some kind of a test flight?

Thanks for the help!

[geekwarrior]

I was recently working on my garage and was lucky enough to look up and see two C-130's and three V-22 Osprey's flying in loose formation overhead. My question is: When did the Osprey's finally enter service? I remember not too long ago that they were still having problems with the aircraft (I also seem to remember several Marines being killed in a crash) during the hover-to-flight transition. Has the Osprey actually entered service, or were the three that I saw out running some kind of a test flight?

Thanks for the help!

i thought they were scrubbed.

on another note, did you see they retired the F-14?

[edweird]

I was recently working on my garage and was lucky enough to look up and see two C-130's and three V-22 Osprey's flying in loose formation overhead. My question is: When did the Osprey's finally enter service? I remember not too long ago that they were still having problems with the aircraft (I also seem to remember several Marines being killed in a crash) during the hover-to-flight transition. Has the Osprey actually entered service, or were the three that I saw out running some kind of a test flight?

Thanks for the help!

The V-22's have been in operation for some time now... despite the body count the contract is just to big to kill and the airframes it is to replace are killing even more.

To answer the question on V22 service entrance:
Full Rate Production - First Quarter, 2001
IOC - USMC - 2001; US SOCOM - 2004

and if the ever present military industrial complex money pit makes your head hurt take a darvocet and take a gander at the V-22 money blackhole

estimated final unit delivery @ estimated 40.1 million a peice:

348 MV-22 (USMC)
50 CV-22 (USAF)
48 HV-22 (USN)

Warning... doing that math will make the baby jesus cry!


so I did it for you... cause crying baby jesui are my thing...
For a grand total of 17,840,000,000

[bleachit]

I was recently working on my garage and was lucky enough to look up and see two C-130's and three V-22 Osprey's flying in loose formation overhead.

this thread is useless without pics!

on another note, did you see they retired the F-14?

thats been in the works for a while now. once the JSF comes online expect to see all the good ones go away

f16, f15, a10 and probably a lot of hornets at least the early models. I cant imagine they would retire the super hornets already.

[geekwarrior]

f16, f15, a10 and probably a lot of hornets at least the early models. I cant imagine they would retire the super hornets already.

on the bright side, maybe the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels will switch to the F-22
Saw that fly here at the March Airshow....nice


And to think the resale/value of older model Angels are bad, wonder what you can get for an A-10? I guess we probably sell them to other nations or park them somewere till WW3

[bleachit]

navy wont fly f22's and not enough of them for the thunderbirds... probably expect both to fly the jsf.

[geekwarrior]

navy wont fly f22's and not enough of them for the thunderbirds... probably expect both to fly the jsf.

yeah.

sigh...just dreaming, that would make an awsome show.

[edweird]

I think it will be a cold day in hell when we finally put the a-10 to bed... same thing with the B-52

the second the USAF puts in the mothball order for the a-10 the army will pick them up and figure out how to not bomb their own guys


as for the F-16 F-15 F-14 and F-18 they are all cold war era fighters... the job they were designed to do no longer exists in modern aircombat and can be done better and with less manpower...

the air superiority job that the F-15 and F-14 used to own is now the domain of the F-22... its just that damn good. Dunno if the navy is converting yet tho...

the multi role fighter role is obviously the domain of the JSF now... as they are looking to replace the F-18 F-16 and harrier with it.

Personally I see the proliferation of UCAV bombers as the next wave in air to ground weapons platforms... with surgical strikes being left to the small B1 and B2 fleets.




ok navy kids heres the navy plan for the JSF according to the govt watchdog defence site fas.org

US Navy

The requirement for carrier operations creates the largest differences between the Air Force and Navy version. The naval version has larger wing and tail control surfaces to enable low-speed approaches to aircraft carriers. Leadingedge flaps and foldable wing tip sections account for this increased wing area. The larger wing area also provides the Navy version with an increased payload capability. To support the stresses of carrier landings and catapult launches, the internal structure of this version is strengthened. In addition, the landing gear has longer stroke and higher load capacity, and of course an arresting hook is added. Compared to the F-18C, the F-35 has twice the range on internal fuel.. The design is also optimized for survivability, which is a key Navy requirement. Like the USAF version, the Navy version will incorporate an internal gun and sensors. This new fighter will be used by the Navy as a first-day-of-war attack fighter in conjunction with the F/A-18 Hornet. The Navy plans to purchase 480 JSF.

[bleachit]

Im not a fan of the a10 retirement, would be pretty sweet if the army took them up.

I knew I was forgetting one.. the harrier. Ive even heard rumors that the f-117 is approaching retirement.

everyone talks about these new fighters out of Europe and Russia... its my personal belief that our current gen of fighters can go toe to toe with them and come out on top. the f-15/16/18/14 may be old but they can still get the job done. plus our pilot training is pretty darn good.

[kosmo]

Edwierd is definitely right about it being a cold day in hell before the army loses its a-10 support. The air force had already considered mothballing them, and the army tried to take them. Then the air force decided they dont want the army getting any of their toys so they held on to them.

[Steelrat]

Long live the A-1 Skyraider!

In all seriousness, the airforce hates CAS. The only reason they fly it is because if they didn't, the army would. The marines are big believers in mud moving.

As for the Osprey, lets hope it works out. It has less internal volume than the Sea Knight, has no provision for onboard armament, and has problems with dustup when landing or taking off. I love the speed, but with no armament, it will need support, which means waiting around for the Cobras that are nowhere near as fast. Seems like they bought the equipment before they came up with a game plan.

Finally, I can't wait for the JSF to start flying. I think it will surprise a few people

[geekwarrior]

everyone talks about these new fighters out of Europe and Russia... its my personal belief that our current gen of fighters can go toe to toe with them and come out on top. the f-15/16/18/14 may be old but they can still get the job done. plus our pilot training is pretty darn good.

I don't really pay attention to other nations aircraft...how do they compare to say the F-22? Or do we know all that much about capabilites?

I was reading a forum awhile back that said the British (Tornado I think?) could kick any of our planes in a dogfight, but that forum sounded a little biased.

[Steelrat]

I don't really pay attention to other nations aircraft...how do they compare to say the F-22? Or do we know all that much about capabilites?

I was reading a forum awhile back that said the British (Tornado I think?) could kick any of our planes in a dogfight, but that forum sounded a little biased.

The Tornado ADV, no way. It's a missle platform, pure and simple. The Brits love to think that their Eurofighter can take the -22, but they are sadly mistaken. Not that it's a bad machine, but it's not in the same league. I mean, just look at the -22 radar. It's getting an upgrade in the near future for side looking panels, and another upgrade that will allow it to use it's radar as a weapon to fry the electronics on enemy aircraft. Thats just crazy.

You'll primarily hear two big stories about the Eurofighter. First, that one of them took out two F-15s in a mock dogfight. No one knows the detail of the engagement, and should anyone really be surprised that a brand new fighter took out a couple of fighters that entered service in the 70s? Secondly, you'll hear bragging from the brits that their Eurofighters that the USAF is paying to have in dissimilar air combat with the -22 are kicking the -22s butt in dogfights. The -22 is not cleared for the 9X or the HMD, so that is a limiting factor. Also, there has been no confirmation of anything, so at this point it is pure rumor. Just keep in mind that the -22 is much, much, MUCH more than a good dogfighter. The raptor can play the "contemt of engagement" with ANY aircraft out there right now.

[bleachit]

and seriously, do you think the USAF is going to reveal all the tricks of the 22 before its operational?

(its not operational yet, is it?)

as far as the russians... they are maneuverable and have long range missles.. I think they are a bit overrated.

[Remington]

this thread is useless without pics!

I tried taking some pictures with my phone, but it was too cloudy/overcast so you can't make anything out. You'll just have to take my word for it.