AO: Help me design a great gaming pc

[Steelrat]

Well, it's about time for my system to be retired. Pentium 4 2.44 with 512 megs of ram and a 128 meg video card just ain't cutting it anymore. I was looking at the big-name sellers (alienware, dell, etc etc) as well as some of the niche players (AAC, Falcon, Overdrive, etc etc) and I've decided that maybe building my own would save me some serious cash (the systems were heading over $5000 WITHOUT a monitor, yikes).

So, the challenge is (since I have never put a machine together) to decide what parts to get. From what I've read, the intel core duos are the way to go, as is an sli card setup. So, given a liberal budget (figure one step down from top end), can you tell me what parts I would want to buy for a rig, and how much it might cost? I'm talking soup to nuts here. If you think it needs a cooling system, add one in. I want to overclock (though I haven't the foggiest how to do it) so keep that in mind.

Thanks AO, lets see what you can do!

EDIT: Just as information, my current play list is BF2/BF2142, Dawn of War, and Company of Heros.

EDIT: IF I END UP BUILDING A SYSTEM YOU SUGGEST, I WILL SEND YOU A NICE BLACK COCKER-THREADED ULTRALIGHT BARREL AS A WAY OF SAYING "THANKS" Remember, I know NOTHING of what brand is best for each component, so specific component recommedations are a must.

[FlawleZ]

Well, it's about time for my system to be retired. Pentium 4 2.44 with 512 megs of ram and a 128 meg video card just ain't cutting it anymore. I was looking at the big-name sellers (alienware, dell, etc etc) as well as some of the niche players (AAC, Falcon, Overdrive, etc etc) and I've decided that maybe building my own would save me some serious cash (the systems were heading over $5000 WITHOUT a monitor, yikes).

So, the challenge is (since I have never put a machine together) to decide what parts to get. From what I've read, the intel core duos are the way to go, as is an sli card setup. So, given a liberal budget (figure one step down from top end), can you tell me what parts I would want to buy for a rig, and how much it might cost? I'm talking soup to nuts here. If you think it needs a cooling system, add one in. I want to overclock (though I haven't the foggiest how to do it) so keep that in mind.

Thanks AO, lets see what you can do!

EDIT: Just as information, my current play list is BF2/BF2142, Dawn of War, and Company of Heros.

Hrm. You have much to learn. First of all, you need to establish a set budget (if it even matters). Secondly, you might want to make sure you know how to build a computer since you said you haven't built one before.

With all the new hardware out, your most pivotal point from the "gaming" aspect, will be your video card. What kind of gaming are you referring to? If you want what's best, I'd reccommend an Nvidia 7950 GX2 in SLI. Granted, its very expensive.

Something else you should consider. We're looking at Microsoft's Vista being standard on current machines in less than a year. With Vista comes DX10. There are 0 video cards that are able to use DX10. Logically, if you can hold out for a little while, you should wait until the new Geforce 8 series and the new ATI X whatever series.

Some forums that might help:

Guru3D
DevHardware


*EDIT* Doh! I didn't even notice your current selection of games. It appears you like first person shooters. Those games can be played on maximum settings with all the eye candy at butter smooth rates with many different systems. BF2 is probably the most taxing of the group, but even that game can be handled with "budget" gaming rigs.

[FlawleZ]

I realize now that my post above really focuses on the video card aspect (my specialty). Here's a short list of recommendations on the rest of your peripherals.

Mobo: Several options. Do your research and purchase a motherboard that will support your desired CPU, RAM, HD and Optical Drives, and has the options such as overclocking that you desire. Asus, MSI, and DFI are several good manufactures to list just a few.

HD: Bare minimum is a 7200 rpm. You might consider a 10,000 rpm from WD. 8 MB buffer seems to be standard. Size is up to your own personal needs.

CPU: Intels Core Duo seems to be quite the rave for now. They're actually fairly efficent unlike Intel's history of playing the numbers game. AMD's FX line of chips are VERY fast. If you're not aware of the differences between AMD and Intel's CPUs, don't be fooled by the processor speeds alone.

RAM: 2 GB is pretty much the standard for high performance gaming rigs. As time progresses, software will hog more and more system memory. OCZ, Patriot, Corsair, and Crucial all make quality products that usually overclock well.

Sound: Audigy. Period. I think the Audigy 2 is the latest?

Optical Drives: DVD+R's are pretty standard now. Blu Ray is just around the corner from being mainstream.

PSU: Definitely controversial. You can't go wrong with an OCZ, Thermaltake, or Mushkin. Several options depending on the rest of your system. One of the last things you should take care of.

Cooling: A properly setup air cooled system is MORE than efficient for 99% of all computers. EVEN for overclocking. A good case is the foundation for your cooling system.

Case: Just personal preference. You will however want to pick up a well designed case for cooling so that sufficient air flow will reach your PC. MANY options here.



Hope this helps some and feel free to ask anything specific and I'll try my best to help.

[Steelrat]

Well, I know how to swap out parts in a PC, so I figure it can't be really too difficult to plug part A into slot B. I'm not 100% on getting the software setup, but I'd imagine that you just put it all together, load the OS, then load the specific drivers. It's overclocking that I'm not 100% on, unless there is some sort of utility for doing it.

My current system has lasted about 4 years, which aint bad, so I'd like to get a powerful enough system that it would last a few years. That probably means the 6700 core duo, 2 gigs of 1066 ram, 2 512 meg graphics cards in an SLI/Crossfire setup, etc etc. I was kinda hoping for specific part recommendations, like "ASUS NXXXX motherboard, 2 gigs Corsair XXXX ram" and so on.

As for setting a budget, I'd like to keep it to around $2000 or so, but I can go over if needed. I don't need everything to be top of the line, but close to top of the line is good.

Appearance items (lights, clear windows) mean very little to me. I'm more concerned with performance than looks.

Hope that helps narrow it down a bit.

[Glickman]

Well, I know how to swap out parts in a PC, so I figure it can't be really too difficult to plug part A into slot B. I'm not 100% on getting the software setup, but I'd imagine that you just put it all together, load the OS, then load the specific drivers. It's overclocking that I'm not 100% on, unless there is some sort of utility for doing it.

My current system has lasted about 4 years, which aint bad, so I'd like to get a powerful enough system that it would last a few years. That probably means the 6700 core duo, 2 gigs of 1066 ram, 2 512 meg graphics cards in an SLI/Crossfire setup, etc etc. I was kinda hoping for specific part recommendations, like "ASUS NXXXX motherboard, 2 gigs Corsair XXXX ram" and so on.

As for setting a budget, I'd like to keep it to around $2000 or so, but I can go over if needed. I don't need everything to be top of the line, but close to top of the line is good.

Appearance items (lights, clear windows) mean very little to me. I'm more concerned with performance than looks.

Hope that helps narrow it down a bit.

are you rendering insane amounts?
if not, dont bother with sli or crossfire and just head over for a single card setup

Personally i would recommend a XFX like this one:
XFX PVT71JYHE9 GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP ExTreme

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150189

[Steelrat]

My machine is purely for web-surfing and gaming, thats it. I'm not sure what you mean by "rendering" as I thought that games required some rendering. In the past, I've bought on the tech curve, and as a result my systems have been outdated pretty quickly. On BF2 i have it set at the lowest setting, and still my fps would make anyone cry. I still rock though Thats why I want to be AHEAD of the curve, and buy a machine that might be overkill right now with what I play, but will still handle stuff well a few years out.

I'm not opposed to a single 512 MB card, but I don't want to stick myself in a dead-end power-wise.

[kruger]

I have a dual card set up that I just built about six months ago. It is ancient tech now.

Here are a coupla bullets for you:

If you go Dual card, then buy the biggest PS that you can afford that is designed for Dual vid. cards.

One 7950 card will out perform two 7800 card in SLI.

The hardware is the easy part, as you say, just plug slot A into socket A, the hard part is the software and drivers, they can be a pain in the rear.

For motherboard selection, go to the manufacturers web site and check in the forums. They ususally have sections dedicated to trouble shooting the boards. You can get a good feel for what people have had trouble with and what they did to fix them. You can save yourself a lot of headaches just by cruisin' thru other peoples problems. Personally, I like the Asus boards, but to each his own.

Overclocking is not really necessary in todays processors. The ability is there, but with the clock speeds that are availble, why do it? Tweaking the speeds for optimum is a good thing, but overclocking can be dangerous.

Cooling is a major concern in todays machines. Look for a case that will allow you to have good airflow thru it. as stated above, there are many out there, again, read reviews on the cases to see what real world results people have. More fans are not necessrily better, just louder. And, you have to take the noise factor into account also. Think about listening to that box O' fans day in and day out. A coupla big fans are better than a bunch of little fans.

Dont build a computer for upgradability, you never do it. Buy the best, latest that you can afford and it will last you a long time.

The new Vista and DX10 are going to render your present computer (as far as games are concerned) usless. DX10 is NOT backwards compatible. But, as also stated before, the game programers have not started to impliment DX10 into their software yet. So, the games that are out now will smoke on a new system. You will have to get a DX10 compatible Vid card when you want to upgrade.

Personally, I would hold off on the Blu Ray drives for a while, they are still new and kinda pricey, if you feel that you need on, then you can add it later.

Hardrives are bigger and faster than ever. Buy a Raptor 10k for your Operating system, makes for a faster startup and running. Buy a couple of larger drives for all your other stuff. I recommend that you have one hardrive to install all your games, and games only. Partition it off to make several smaller drives. That way when you have to defrag a drive, it wont take three days to resort thru a tera byte of data.

Def get the Audigy. 5.1 suround sound is plenty. You really dont need the 6.1 or 7.1. It really makes the games come alive.

Get a monitor that has a fast refresh rate. You are playing games and you want your display to refresh as fast as possible. Dont want skewing or tearing of the rendered display. Might miss that crucial head shot in a pinch. If you can, I would recommend a CRT display, not the flatpanel. The reason is because that you can get killer deals on 20 and 21 inch displays right now and they offer outstanding resolutions. THe flat panels are getting better, and I have one. But, to get a great one that is big enough, usually costs some bucks. Price a 20 inch panel, then price a 21 inch CRT.

All of these suggestions are geared toward the gamming machine and any machine that is a good gamer will literaly fly at most everything else. Hope this helps.

[Glickman]

heres a great setup expecially if you wanna break into overclocking

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/10/cheap_thrills/

its pretty much a E6400 (2.1) overclocked stable to 3.0 and beyond. theres no reason to go beyond 3.0 really. Anyway, i would base your rig off of that article like i did and you wont be sorry

[tribalman]

first off, get a big case. i'm talking a thermaltake armor or a full tower case. see cpu cooler for reason. it's big. it can fit in a lanboy (have it in my second gaming/lan case) but it's a tight fight and wires will sometimes get caught in it.

i'll go through by the specs i would reccomend. they aren't the absoulte best, but it's a few steps above what i have, and my rig is great to my standards.


PSU, if you are going at least 550. if you are going dual 7950's, which i don't reccomend caues the drivers dont work too well and there are serious problems in some games up to and including full system crashes, or even a single 7950 try and find a 600 watt. also, i don't reccomend a modular PSU. it seems like a good idea, but i have more wires now than on the old one i had and it's a bigger pain routing the cables now.

my personal preference on video cards is the evga 7900 gt ko superclocked.

CPU, amd fx 60. you don't really need dual core unless you are doing stuff like gaming AND ripping a cd/dvd/cdr, burning cd/dvd/cdr, or just typically running more than 2 heaving cpu processes. with my xp 3400+ i have no problems running dual monitors along with a game such as fear or half life with full options and other programs like clock (i get lost in games very easily and lose track of time), aim, icq, and itunes. i still get great framerates.

CPU cooler, Zalman CNPS9700 along with a good thermal paste. throw away the stuff they ship you. anything is better than that garbage.

RAM, 2 gigs of Corsair XMS memory with as tight of timings as you can find. try and get 2 sets that are the same timings . mine are close, but not quite the same so i can't OC them and there is a little bit of a drop in performance, barely noticable, but it's not running as fast as if i had the same timings.

sound card, i just use the 5.1 sourround on my MOBO with creative 5.1 speakers and it's great!

speakers: creative's are very good. logictech's are ok. haven't had experiance with any others....yet.

MOBO. ASUS kn8 sli 32 deluxe is good. it's what i use. it's pretty stable if you want to OC, even it's just a bit. if you want to get something else, make sure on both channels it's 16x and 16x. some sli boards will have the main video card running at 16x and the other at 1 or 2x. if you don't wanna SLI get something that is still 16x on the main channel.

cd drives, just use old ones. i'm still using my 8 year old dvd player and cd burner. i reccomend 2 drives. it's just my preferance, up to you.

hdd: see above. if you do want new drives. seagate and western digital are the only way to go. maxtors kind of have a rep of being hit or miss. mine were all misses. seagate and WD are very good.

to me there is no reason to get a PPU(physics processing unit). it's first run hardware, about 3 games use it. not worth it yet.

if you like your CRT keep it. if you get an LCD display get one with at MOST 8ms responce time. you will get wicked image tearing. it's even notice able at 8ms. i say get atleast a 19 inch.

for a first timer, i reccomend not building it on carpet, or you standing on carpet. static is a punk. always touch a peice of the frame of the case before really touching your CPU to install. make sure your hands are clean when installing anything. dust and oil will do the same thing as static. try to avoid touching the pins on the CPU or the contacts on the RAM and video card. spread thermal paste evenly and over the whole CPU. corner to corner. try to tie wires together and route them out of the way of fans and from blocking air flow, good air flow is a must. if the temps get too high you will damage things. i'm kinda tired and very angry (see other post) so if i forget anything, please forgive me. hopefully someone else will fill in any holes and give more insight. GOOD LUCK!! work slowly and carefully and everything should be ok.

[Glickman]

i would definately go core 2 duo. the prices vs the performance you get is definately worth it.

not to mention it being the best chip out there right now as well as still being extremely affordable

[WaffleBaron]

Look for reviews on the motherboard you choose too see if SATA2 is more of a pain than its worth. The extra speed is always nice but not if its problematic or if the cost differential for your drives pushes your price too high (although it shouldn't).

[FlawleZ]

Good advice from everyone so far. Keep in mind you will get better image quality from a NICE CRT than an LCD. LCD is actually inferrior technology. Its just nice to have a small flat panel instead of a bulkty monitor.

[Banshee23]

Ok here we go:

MB: Asus P5B-E - $158 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131070

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $220 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115004

Memory: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 - $280 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145034

HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB - $95 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148140

Heatsink - Scythe SCNJ-1000 - $40 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185122

Fan for heatsink: Antec 120mm tri speed fan - $14 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835129033

Sound - Use the onboard sound or here's the current top of the line: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic - $107 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102188

CD/DVD - LITE-ON Black 16X DVD+R - $33 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106019

PSU: - OCZ GameXStream 700W - $160 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341002

Video Card - eVGA GeForce 7950GX2 - $495 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130023

Case - Whatever looks good to you My personal favorite manufacturer is Antec: Antec Performance I P180B - $115 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129017

So, approx. $1700 before tax & shipping. You can find a few of these items a little cheaper at various different sites, but for simplicity I just used Newegg. You should be able to overclock the E6400 with this board to 3.2ghz+ fairly easily (You should hit over 3.5 unless you're really unlucky). As an alternative you can get the E6600 for $315 which have 4mb of cache instead of two. Doesn't make much of a real world difference in testing but I'll throw it out there anyway. Unfortunately any video card you buy now will only be midrange at best in another year & a half. DX10 is coming, but if you don't plan on switching to Vista than it's a non-issue as XP won't ever have DX10. Any new games coming out for the foreseeable future except for Halo2 will be backwards compatable with DX9 as they would be excluding 90% of potential buyers if they didn't . I wouldn't worry about DX10 for awhile. If you are worried about it than reasonably priced cards should be out by next summer.

You're going to need to buy some Arctic Silver 5 for the heatsink. This isn't an SLI motherboard, for Intel & SLI you would need a Nvidia chipset MB which don't overclock anywhere near what the Intel MB's do right now. And SLI is almost always extreme overkill unless you game on a 24" LCD at native resolution. Core 2 Duo is the way to do right now - they're priced very good & they're much better performers than the AMD chips right now. (I've had AMD for the last four years, but Intel finally came out with something worth buying ) They spank the AMD FX chips and are much cheaper to boot... And yes, you're going to want dual core if for nothing else than future apps/games that are optimized for dual threading. For the hard drive, the Seagate 7200.10's are almost as fast as the raptors but cheaper, cooler, & quieter. The Ninja heatsink is just about the best air cooled HS you can buy right now. For the sound, I use onboard because it doesn't matter that much to me (sounds good, not too much of a processing hit). The X-Fi is the latest & greatest card - The Xtrememusic version is the base card. You can get the Platnium version for $30-$50 more, it's the same exact card but comes with a module for the front of your case to plug stuff into. It's convenient but probably not worth the money. The PSU is more than enough for everything in here & is quite popular right now in the gaming world.

Hmmmm I think that's it. This is a beast of a PC if you really want to spend this much. It'll last quite a while, you might end up upgrading the vid card in two years if you want to stay at the high end (unfortunately that's how things work in the GPU world). If you're ok with mid-range performance in a few years though you'll be fine.If you have any questions just ask

[Steelrat]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there. That's actually less than I was looking to spend.

Do you just use that silver crud to stick the heatsink right to the processor?

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?

[FlawleZ]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there.

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?

It's just kind of the crowd we have here. There is a HUGE ATI following as well. Also, all the long time 3DFX fans swapped over to Nvidia once they bought 3DFX out. Nvidia tends to have the more powerful card out sooner, while ATI is always playing catchup.