Must read this.

[evildead420]

wow, this thread went crazy.


Support our Troops

[Albinonewt]

wow, this thread went crazy.


Support our Troops

[kosmo]

Kinda hard to lie about what you said when I quoted exactly what you wrote. Either way, youre wrong about what you think. When the mission is an extremely flawed politically and financially motivated crap-fest that is detrimental to the lives and safety of the soldiers, its quite impossible to be both for the soldier and for the mission. Unless youre for the extremely vague "war on terrorism" that had nothing to do with Iraq.

All for a piss poor reason. It wouldve been a little easier to swallow if I were doing something valuable. Oh yeah, Im medically non-deployable, too. So is my brother who is in Baghdad. Funny how that works.

Mustve missed reading that.

[warbeak2099]

Honestly I must agree that when people protest and then say they support the troops, it greatly demoralizes me. I know I don't have the right to speak about being in a combat situation or on the ground in Iraq, Afghanistan, or any of the regions in which our troops are serving. I'm only in Navy ROTC, but I'm still training to do a job. And whether I'm firing cruise missiles from an Arleigh Burke class Destroyer in support of Marines on the ground, or clearing mines on an Avenger class Minesweeper so Marines can land on shore and get the supplies they need, I will still be taking part in what our nation is doing.

When someone says that they disagree with the job I am training to do, and then says that they still support me as an individual, they are missing the point. And it really gets you down when people just don't understand what you're doing for them, or in my case, what you will be doing for them. On the flip side, when someone just says thank you, regardless of their political opinion, it feels amazing. So Fishy and others in this thread, if you want to support us, keep your opinions to yourself. It doesn't do us any good to hear them and it in fact demoralizes us. There's no good in making us feel like crap if you want us to do our jobs and get home safe.

And about there being sexism built into the military, you couldn;t be farther from the truth. I don't know how it is for the Army or Airforce, but in the Navy and Marine Corps, equality is a key ideal that is used every day. In fact, in the sailor's creed, Naval personel (marines and sailors) pledge to fight for equality and fair treatment of all people. In a unit, you see this in real life. No one judges the female sailors any different from the males. We are all the same, doing the same job. We have respect for each other and nothing can penetrate that respect. This is something you don't find in the civilian world. it doesn't matter what your gender, race, creed, or religion is, you are part of the team, and nothing transgresses that idea. So the system is inherently equal. Some individuals may not adhere to that, but they are wrong and get punished when caught, severly.

In conclusion, you guys really can't express an opinion on a matter which you know nothing about. You cannot express an opinion on the inner workings of the military, you've never experienced it. You also cannot have an opinion on how your protesting makes us feel. You aren't one of us, you don't know. And when we say it makes us feel like crap, you better believe it. We aren't lying to you. It really does demoralize us. So if you are going to protest, don't say you support the troops, because you don't. If you did, you wouldn't be working so hard to make us feel like we aren't appreciated. You can say you appreciate us all you want, but when you say that you think the job we are doing is bull****... well you don't appreciate it. Don't even try to justify it either. We are telling you the effects of your behavior, make a decision. Either protest us, or support us. There is no gray area in between. You'd like ti to be that simple, but it isn't. That's rather easy and if you want to be lazy, well I'd rather you just go on the side opposing us.

[Albinonewt]

Kinda hard to lie about what you said when I quoted exactly what you wrote.

But somehow you managed to do it, good for you.

Either way, youre wrong about what you think. When the mission is an extremely flawed politically and financially motivated crap-fest

Financially motivated? I thought that by now with the hundreds of billions of dollars that had been spent that even the craziest people had abandoned that mantra. No, the war is not, and was never, motivated by money. It has always been motivated by security considerations (correctly or incorrectly) and ideology (that democracy stops terrorism, also correctly or incorrectly).

that is detrimental to the lives and safety of the soldiers,

its quite impossible to be both for the soldier and for the mission. Unless youre for the extremely vague "war on terrorism" that had nothing to do with Iraq.

All for a piss poor reason. It wouldve been a little easier to swallow if I were doing something valuable. Oh yeah, Im medically non-deployable, too. So is my brother who is in Baghdad. Funny how that works.

[SCpoloRicker]

It's the only way to be sure.

/hi newt. you've been touchy lately.

[Steelrat]

The most entertaining part of this is that an anti-war "supporter" is trying to convince actual veterans that they should feel "supported" by her actions.

They don't. They have said so clearly. That should say something.

[Steelrat]

That worked well in Vietnam and Cambodia.

You should go and re-read your history. It WAS working in Vietnam. Militarily, we were winning the war. The Viet Cong was pretty much done after the Tet Offensive, and we were whipping the North's regulars in every major battle. Hell, the Linebacker offensives drove the North right to the negotiating table. What cost us the conflict was the erosion of support in the United States.

[SCpoloRicker]

What cost us the conflict was the erosion of support in the United States.

Wait, I thought it was Jane Fonda and John Kerry?

/by the by, seems to be a bit of "erosion of support" currently
//yes, I understand why we went to Vietnam

[kosmo]

Financially motivated? I thought that by now with the hundreds of billions of dollars that had been spent that even the craziest people had abandoned that mantra. No, the war is not, and was never, motivated by money. It has always been motivated by security considerations (correctly or incorrectly) and ideology (that democracy stops terrorism, also correctly or incorrectly).

You must be right, because there were so many of Bin Ladens cohorts hiding in those oil fields, and Halliburton isnt friends with Tricky Dick Jr., nor do they have a single lobbyist on their pay roll.

Soldiers died in WW2 to basically stop Japan and Germany from taking over the world. That was worth it. Soldiers getting killed by the thousands to install corrupt Islamic governments in Iraq and Afghanistan is not worth it.

And yes, Iraq is the center of the war on terror.

Thats the biggest load of bile Ive ever heard.


No, youre lying. Stop lying, you lying liar.

[Altimas]

Man I looked everywhere for that Picture on Arguing on the Internet....


Oh well...

[warbeak2099]

Soldiers died in WW2 to basically stop Japan and Germany from taking over the world. That was worth it. Soldiers getting killed by the thousands to install corrupt Islamic governments in Iraq and Afghanistan is not worth it.

Um we're actually trying to prevent Islamic governments from getting power. We're trying to steer the people away from a corrupt theocracy.

Also, Iraq has become a pretty huge hub of terror. Lebanon and several African states are also parts of the problem. What terrorism sprouts from is basically poor economic situations. When you have a tyrannical dictator oppressing his people to the point that they can't provide for themselves, you get desperation. They also need to find a scapegoat on which to take out this desperation. Since defying the government in this type of situation is futile and impractical, terrorist factions direct the hatred to a much easier target, America. America is prosperous, powerful, etc. Perfect target. It's pretty easy to brainwash people into thinking that by killing Americans their problems will be neutralized, since the people they are recruiting are incredibly impoverished and have no where else to turn. Think about what a poor, dejected person would say to someone who promises eternity in paradise.

They of course forget true Islamic doctrine that forbids a holy war against civilians and civilian property. They forget that a Jihad does not mean holy war, it means struggle and is supposed to be used to describe a personal struggle with your family/friend or with your faith. They forget reality basically. As do brainwashed liberals who follow these capricious ideas of a corrupt American government going around stealing people's oil and the like. Perhaps there is some evidence to that point, but they fail to look at the other side of the coin. The fact that we have made great strides toward democracy and political autonomy in Iraq. But I guess all the evidence supporting that fact is just conveniently erroneous.

[Albinonewt]

You must be right, because there were so many of Bin Ladens cohorts hiding in those oil fields, and Halliburton isnt friends with Tricky Dick Jr., nor do they have a single lobbyist on their pay roll.

Point in fact; there have been numerous acts of terrorism against the oil field, which are the life blood of Iraq and necessary for the countries survival. And the contracts that initially got Halliburton into Iraq were awarded in the Clinton years.

Soldiers died in WW2 to basically stop Japan and Germany from taking over the world. That was worth it. Soldiers getting killed by the thousands to install corrupt Islamic governments in Iraq and Afghanistan is not worth it.

Thats the biggest load of bile Ive ever heard.

It happens to be true. Three years after the invasion of Iraq it has become the center of the war on terror. We do battle daily with terrorists and their terror masters, Iran and Syria, are conveniently located on the border supplying their cohorts. Yes, Iraq is currently the center of the war on terror.

No, youre lying. Stop lying, you lying liar.

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm sorry, but the argument "If you don't support what we're doing in Iraq, you don't support the troops." really aggravates me. It strikes me as more of the same "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists" baloney.

Speaking of nation building: how are our efforts in South America in the 80s working out for us? Lots of pro-American sentiment there, right? Guys?

[Albinonewt]

I'm sorry, but the argument "If you don't support what we're doing in Iraq, you don't support the troops." really aggravates me. It strikes me as more of the same "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists" baloney.

Speaking of nation building: how are our efforts in South America in the 80s working out for us? Lots of pro-American sentiment there, right? Guys?