Paging ARMY, TP, TSC, etc.

[Triangle]

Thought you guys might want to check this out.
I thought it was pretty neat.
Found at http://www.rhinelandarms.com/

The AR57 rifle is designed for use in any climate and ready for the most extreme use you can give it. Sand and mud will normally clog and jam most rifles and carbines yet have very little effect on the AR57 due to its simplicity and strength. The AR57 is more than a challenge to any SMG, carbine or military rifle in the areas of accuracy, ergonomics, reliability and durability.

Designed as a upper that can be attached to any M16/AR15 lower, it is not dependent on the lower for reliability of ejection or accuracy. The AR57 features ambidextrous cocking handle and magazine release levers with brass ejection out the bottom of the magazine well. The barrel is free floating for improved accuracy and includes a standard M16 flash hider.

Note-for LEO and Gov't models- call for more information.

[Steelrat]

Reminds me of the P90, which isn't a good thing. The feed system seems overly complex. Also, I am not a huge fan of the 5.7 round, in large part because of the cost and limited availability.

This strikes me as a solution in search of a problem. I'll stick with my 5.56.

[edweird]

wow that guy has a terrible website.

I dont have alot of faith in this manufactuer yet, I would need to shoot his uppers at a minimum first. Also im not really digging on the G36ness that they seem to be desperatly going for. I have friends who swear by the 5.7x28 round but I am partial to not paying 25 bucks a box for plinking.

[warbeak2099]

Militarily speaking, anything larger than the 5.56 is a godsend. That puny, glorified .22 round can't put down a hardcore insurgent as well as say a 7.62 AK-47 round. Marines are actually picking up AK's and AN's. The M16 needs to go and something with a more effective round needs to come in it's place. Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.

[grEnAlEins]

Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.

Isn't the HK416 a .223 5.56 by 45 => .223 Rem, right I believe this is the same round as the Colt rifles and carbines.

[BeaverEater]

Id rather stick with the good accuracy of the M16 compared to the horrible accuracy of the ak47. The only thing the AK has over the M16 is reliability. The pros and cons of each type of ammo is arguable.

[Lohman446]

Militarily speaking, anything larger than the 5.56 is a godsend. That puny, glorified .22 round can't put down a hardcore insurgent as well as say a 7.62 AK-47 round. Marines are actually picking up AK's and AN's. The M16 needs to go and something with a more effective round needs to come in it's place. Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.

Source?

[Steelrat]

Militarily speaking, anything larger than the 5.56 is a godsend. That puny, glorified .22 round can't put down a hardcore insurgent as well as say a 7.62 AK-47 round. Marines are actually picking up AK's and AN's. The M16 needs to go and something with a more effective round needs to come in it's place. Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

First of all:



See the tiny one on the left? That's the 5.7mm. See the significantly larger one to it's right? That's the 5.56mm. It's a full-on rifle round, whereas the 5.7 is more of a large pistol round.

Yes, it'd be nice to go to a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 grendel, but the 5.56 isn't really that bad a round. I feel sorry for any Marine who picks up a POS insurgent AK. I hear people talk all kinds of crap about AK's, but their only advantage is the ability to function with crap maintenance. With normal maintenance, the M-16 can be just as reliable, and is vastly more accurate. Marines train their soldiers to be riflemen, not to spray n' pray with an AK. Need something hard-hitting for building entries? Get a semi-auto shotgun, nothing will beat it.

Any what the hell is an HK16? Are you talking about the H&K M16? If so, it's just a normal 5.56 mm M16 made by H&K with some nifty H&K diopter sights and steel magazines. The FN SCAR is 7.62 would be a nice rifle, but any change to a larger caliber is going to need a lot of infrastructure change, and will probably have to wait until current hostilities are over, or winding down.

EDIT: Don't forget that, with the AK's, you are stuck with a 7.62x39 round, which isn't nearly as powerful as the NATO 7.62x51. The 7.62 Nato shoots a 150 grain round at about 2820 f/s, producting an energy of 3602 joules. The 7.62x39 shoots a 125 grain round at about 2300 f/s, producing an energy of 2111 joules. The 5.56 shoots a 55 grain bullet at about 3300 f/s, producing an energy of 1743 joules. The 7.63x39 is closer to the 5.56 than the 7.62 Nato. Sure, bullet diameter and design plays a role in effectiveness, but so does energy.

One of the reasons the 5.56 is having issues is because of the M855 round. That round is designed to penetrate, and doesn't produce a large wound channel. There have been reports from non-military personnel in Iraq who are allowed to use jacketed hollow-point rounds, which the military cannot use. The 5.56 JHP rounds have been VERY effective, due to the spectacular damage the rounds cause when hitting people.

[grEnAlEins]

Any what the hell is an HK16?

I assumed he meant the HK416, which still shoots the 5.56 by 45. You should have put up a pic of a .22LR too, so he could see the difference between .223 Rem (glorified .22 ) and .22LR...

Oh and I got another small question for ya...

[Steelrat]

I assumed he meant the HK416, which still shoots the 5.56 by 45. You should have put up a pic of a .22LR too, so he could see the difference between .223 Rem (glorified .22 ) and .22LR...

Oh and I got another small question for ya...

Right, the HK416 is just an M16 with a piston-system, diopter sights, and steel mags. That's what made his claim so wierd, it shoots the same ol' 5.56 round. And you are right, bullet diameter means nothing without noting the weight of the round and it's velocity. .50 DE is a world apart from .50 BMG, as an example.

[Nick E]

What is the giant one on the right? The 4 on the right, look huge compared to the rest of them, but mabe it's because i'm not holding them looking at them.

[Steelrat]

What is the giant one on the right? The 4 on the right, look huge compared to the rest of them, but mabe it's because i'm not holding them looking at them.

From left to right:

• 5.7mm
• 5.56mm x45 (M16 round)
• 7.62mm x51 NATO (M14, FNFAL, HK91)
• .50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun)
• 20mm x102 (used in M61 gatling gun, among other things)
• 20mm x 139
• 25mm x 137 (used in the M2 Bradley fighting vehicle)

Those big ones will ruin your day. Some new HUGE rifles actually use small 20mm rounds, if you can believe it. And you thought .50 rifles were big...

[Army]

Militarily speaking, anything larger than the 5.56 is a godsend. That puny, glorified .22 round can't put down a hardcore insurgent as well as say a 7.62 AK-47 round. Marines are actually picking up AK's and AN's. The M16 needs to go and something with a more effective round needs to come in it's place. Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.

yeah, ok...sure.

How about putting down the Xbox controller and stepping away from the HALO?

As soon as you go get a reality clue, you can come back and play our game

[Lohman446]

I know I know.

Lets go from a reasonably effective, controllable round that allows one to carry a large quantity of ammo to... oh lets say a 30/06 or something. Surely having a bigger round would outweight the benefits of lighter recoil, equipment weight, and quantity of ammo carried oh... wait

Our soldiers use steel core bullets. Going from .223 to a .30 caliber whatever would prove to have very little overall effect on the wounding characteristics of the round. Regardless of what the designers of HALO think.

[SCpoloRicker]

Militarily speaking, anything larger than the 5.56 is a godsend. That puny, glorified .22 round can't put down a hardcore insurgent as well as say a 7.62 AK-47 round. Marines are actually picking up AK's and AN's. The M16 needs to go and something with a more effective round needs to come in it's place. Whether it's this system or the H&K HK16.