Paging ARMY, TP, TSC, etc.

[edweird]

5.56 is a glorified .22 round eh?

M-193 ball fired out of a AR-15 VS Level IIIA body armor on a box of clay(test was set up to evaulate ballistic penetration though level IIIA armor, clay box was used to graphicly demonstrate dynamic impact and expansion)

[Steelrat]

[Triangle]

Why didn't you just make the 5.6 louder?

[grEnAlEins]

[Steelrat]

Bwahahahahaha!

[edweird]

a friend also showed me this weekend that 5.7x28 still uses 5.56-5.57 diameter projectiles(AKA 5.7 is a marketing ploy), they (FN) even recommend to useing 5.56 cans(suppressors) on FN 57's and P-90/PS-90 as we use on our AR-15's

/5.7x28 is still a nice fast pistol round, no doubt about that.

[93civiccpe]

My opinions. The 5.7 x 28 round is a great round for the FN Five Seven pistol, and fun to shoot in that p90, but I feel its real advantage is as a pistol round. It gives you a good round that actually penetrates body armor which is what it was designed for. Plus, you can get hi-cap mags for the Five Seven making it a nice firearm for anyone going against armored opposition.

As far as the m16/ak47 debate, I've used and like both. I did a lot with my AK47 and had it so that it felt like you were shooting a .22 when you fired it. Not much of a kick at all. Then I took a Russian Saiga rifle (basically a beefed up ak design that shoots the .308 round) and did similar mods and got it firing with little recoil as well. It is a fine weapon, but I always had much better accuracy with an AR-15.

I know a lot of requested a larger round than the .223, but the .223 was a very well thought out round. If a .223 round hits a bone when it enters the body it bounces all around in the body tearing a lot up. I've ready many stories where they've found someone who was shot in the shoulder and the exit wound was in the lower extremeties. Back in the day a lot of our troops used the 30-06 round which is a great round, and when it hit it would usually knock the victim on their back and they would die.

Why would our military ever go away from this round?? Because if I shoot one person on a battlefield and he dies, I've taken one man out of the battle. If I shoot one person with a smaller person and have it rip around through them, then they are left there screaming. This does a few things.. first, it puts fear especially in younger soldiers who see it, and get their mind off of the battle. Second, you usually have one or two men who run to try to drag them to safety. Now you've taken a few people away from the firefight instead of just one. The logistics behind it make sense.

When it comes down to situations where you want a "one shot one kill" result, look at the round used. Overwhelmingly the #1 calibur of choice for national sniper rifles is the 7.62 x 51 round (also known as the .308). It is an excellent round.. I've dropped three deer this year and long ranges (one 400+ yards) with this round in match grade ammo. The russians used a slightly longer cartridge with a similar projectile for their early sniper rifles (mosin nagants) which used the 7.62 x 54. That also is a great round you can buy cheap in bulk now. I don't see there being a change in caliburs for the military anytime soon though. There has been more research and time put into creating the m16 than any other rifle out from what I've been told. It has been modified through the years to fix the problems they've had and making it a really reliable and pretty easily maintainable rifle. The fact that every one of our marines have to qualify by shooting a paper target at 500 yards with the ironsights/peepsights and they say it's simple to do so is pretty impressive. If you have a chance, go look at what 500 yards looks like.. it's a darn good shot with ironsights.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

[devildog]

to the guy who said we pick up ak's over there and shouldnt use the 5.56..... wow

dont speak of things you know nothing of.

[Steelrat]

to the guy who said we pick up ak's over there and shouldnt use the 5.56..... wow

dont speak of things you know nothing of.

It seems Mr. 5.56-sucks abandoned the thread after getting his butt e-kicked.

[Recon by Fire]

Just wanted to say that all AK's are not created equal! If think the AK is so inaccurate move out to the 300m mark and we will test your theory



5.7 sucks purely for cost alone! It is also a pistol caliber not what you expect to replace a rifle caliber with. It has its place I guess, but as a main battle rifle is not it!

5.56 is battlefield proven, it works!

[kosmo]

I think the AK accuracy myth is because of people not being any good with the shorter sight radius on its iron sights compared to ar15s. Ive got some Bulgarian SF friends that hit sillouette(sp?) targets at 800 meters using a short barreled AKS with iron sights. Never thought Id see anything like that, but they were pretty friggin good at it.

edit: That, and the wildly varying quality of a lot of the old ak's. Get a good one though, and theyre really good.

[SCpoloRicker]

God, I love RbF's drum-fed, folding stock, bignasty bayonet AK.

[Steelrat]

I think the AK accuracy myth is because of people not being any good with the shorter sight radius on its iron sights compared to ar15s. Ive got some Bulgarian SF friends that hit sillouette(sp?) targets at 800 meters using a short barreled AKS with iron sights. Never thought Id see anything like that, but they were pretty friggin good at it.

edit: That, and the wildly varying quality of a lot of the old ak's. Get a good one though, and theyre really good.

You said the key words, SPECIAL FORCES. The short sight radius and generous tolerances of most AK type firearms results in a less-accurate firearm.

And Recon, that is NOT a garden-variety AK But it's certainly one I'd want.

[Hexis]

Those shells on the right are so cute and lil.

155mm, now that's a shell:

<a href="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/m107_usafas.jpg"><img src="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/m107_usafas.jpg" width="278" height="305"></img></a>

Of corse you need one of these to fire it:

<a href="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/NLOS-C.jpg"><img src="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/NLOS-C.jpg"></img></a>

Or if 25 miles is too short range you can go with LRLAP:

<a href="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/LRLAP.jpg"><img src="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/LRLAP.jpg" width="320" height="227"></img></a>

But you better have a big pool in the back yard:

<a href="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/DDX-AGS.jpg"><img src="http://www.visi.com/~mjb/DDX-AGS.jpg" width="300" height="300"></img></a>

mmmm big guns.

[Steelrat]

Ewww, FCS! Make it go away!