Sexual Harassment... or not?

[Pneumagger]

Here's the hypothetical situation involving a 21yr old male who enjoys paintball and a roughly 30 year old attractive female. Neither person ahs ever really spoken to each other.
Do you think this is sexual harassment?

Guy: [sitting at desk typing] tac*tac*tic*tac....
Girl: [enters] Hi.
Guy: Hi, how ya doin. [thinking: ]
Girl: Not bad.
...A short conversation starts about the office, weather, lunch menu, whatever...
Girl: So what do you thinking then?
Guy: Well, if I told you what I was actually thinking you would in all probability consider it sexual harassment. So I'll just say, 'nothing'.
Girl: [upset][leaves]

Well?

[MANN]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

[Pneumagger]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

But the guy never said or mmotioned anything sexual, offensive, demeaning, or otherwise.
For all the girl knows he could have been thinking she was ugly - or hot - or has nice tatas... she can't just assume something incriminating.

For example: When you ask a government official/worker/contractor what they are doing, and they say they aren't going to tell you - it's not being elitist or secretive, it's following the rules.

The sad part is I forsee the guy losing this one

[Glickman]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

personally i think no matter what kind of "manly man man" you are, someone could find words that would hurt you.

sexual harassment is tricky. you can be called out on it for merely insinuating, which this guy pretty much did. is it going anywhere in a court of law? highly doubtful.

so, its probably up to the manager's discretion. the funny thing is that if your the manager and are approached with a worker claiming sexual harassment, you have pretty much no choice but to take some kind of action, even if it is purely BS.

[koleah]

Thats the thing about sexual harassment:

If it can be considered sexual harassment, then it can be sexual harassment.

Anything you do (theoretically), from the tone in your voice to what you were doing with your eyes while you two were talking, could be considered sexual harassment. Including jokes (like this one, and like the one where I learned my lesson.)

So "the guy" should just watch out in the future.

Kolea

[PumpPlayer]

It's "yellow light."

If it went to court there'd be no problem at all but that doesn't guarantee safety.
There is a more tactful way to handle the situation - from both ends.

If I were the supervisor and it was reported to me, I would have to CMA and run things by the book. The sad part is that it would become a big deal over nothing. If the girl decided to push it, that is...

[turbo chicken]

If you have to ask ...

[MANN]

so, its probably up to the manager's discretion.

QFT

[behemoth]

I say things like that all the time.

(and youve seen me, that can be kinda creepy, eh? :P)

Just find her again, and be like "Im sorry, it was only a joke, i didn't think you'd get upset. I honestly didnt mean for it be taken that way. I hope theres no hard feelings."

If shes still pissed, good luck.

If she smiles, youre fine, but dont let your fiance-to-be know about it.

[MANN]

But the guy never said or mmotioned anything sexual, offensive, demeaning, or otherwise.

Guy: Well, if I told you what I was actually thinking you would in all probability consider it sexual harassment. So I'll just say, 'nothing'.

If the word sex is anywhere in the conversation it is probally considered sexual harrasment. At least according to HR (they are all women there)

[Pneumagger]

Last time I checked...

Saying you might Sexually Harass someone wasnt sexual Harasment.

Proposing to a broad isn't marriage.

Talking about robbing a bank isn't theft.

Telling someone you might kill them wasn't murder.

/Josh... I'm sexually harassing you.
//Also... this really is a hypothetical situation. I just thought about saying that line to someone today and it got my imagination running.

[MANN]

/Josh... I'm sexually harassing you.

Finally I got sexually harrased.

No I agree completely with you. If it were my manager he would laugh, and nothing would happen. The women in our office (the ones WITHOUT chair arse, ie the women that look 130 behind the desk, and 230 standing up) are use to sexual harrasment, and usually know that most of us are joking around.

The problem you will have depends on if she pushes it/who finds out. Some people are anal about following procedure, and little events will blow up and require books of paperwork.

Kinda off topic, but one of the engineer techs was moving a desk, and cut his hand on a floursent lightbulb that he broke that was attached to the top of it. He was not wearing PPE which is according to Health and Safty required when movin a desk. After cutting it he went to his personal doc to get 2 stiches, and pain meds (he is a sissy). H&S found out about it, and it went up the food chain to the vice pres of the company. My/his manager didnt think much about a cut, and did not follow the"procedure" and got a ton of paperwork/slap on the hand about it. After it was said and done they said it cost the company ~5k for a small little cut that could have probally been fixed with some electrical tape around his finger.

Moral of the story: Its not what you did its who knows what you did/didnt do

[Pneumagger]

Hello Josh!

I was actually referring to Josh (behemoth)... but I'll take a 2 for 1 anytime

/Any other repressed Joshes out there?

[Ole Unka Phil]

Many years ago I had a female employee that was transfered under me that was a trouble maker from another division. I tried everything I could to not have her transferred under my supervision because I knew this. Her previous supervisors were deathly afraid of her and would not meet with her alone without another in the room. Well.... they saw transferring her to me as a way out of thier predicament rather than firing her so I ended up with her for exactly one part of one day. I was in her presence perhaps 20 minutes and always with a few witnesses.

Well she failed to show up the second day and eventualy I was hauled over to Human Resources where I was charged with Sexual Harrasment for Allegedly saying the word "S_H_E_T" (yea the Feces word) in front of her. And incredible long period of investigation it was finaly determined that I did NOT say it (remember I had witnesses every time) and that she had abandoned her job. Now... this all took like 6 months. For which time I was in limbo and was not allowed to discuss it with anyone nor was I eligible for any promotions, raises while under investigation. All someone has to do is "Accuse" you of something and your screwed for a period of time. Then, all the while, the accuser can talk his or her head off and make up anything they want but you can say nothing! So there is damage to your reputation going on all the while as well as a frozen period of your career. And in the end, if the whole thing is dropped, there is no public announcement nor any restoration of your reputation or public appology. You just are expected to move on and live with it.

Its not a pleasant thing to go through. Its something to avoid at all costs. And as you can see, even when your totaly covering your arse your still vulnerable to wild accusations. And it will damage your reputation no matter how honest and how rediculous it all is. And you can do NOTHING to prevent it except to keep yourself totaly clean. So watch what you say and do and hope for nothing like I went through.

Least you think I could have sued her in any way, your right. However she was so disturbed that any judge or jury would have concluded that she really did believe what she claimed happened. Even if it did not. And then proving damages is impossible. No one is going to admit they passed you over for a raise or promotion because of an accusation because then THEY Would be subject to disiplinary action. So your never going to get your superiors to admit that. So you screwed. All the way around.

[Lohman446]

Most companies (and I have experience with turmoil in a dealership I worked in down south, or at least dealing with the issues afterwards) settle sexual harrassment allegations quickly for a sum (in this case it was $50K) while never admitting wrong doing just to avoid the issue becoming public once an accusation is made unless they can disprove it. This is not a case of innocent until proven guilty, its a case of guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.

The manager in question was never disciplined, frankly because everyone knew he had never done anything wrong, even though the company had paid damages.